The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Presiding Officer (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

I call the Assembly to order.

1. Statement by the Presiding Officer

Before we move to questions to the First Minister, and following the vigil held outside the Senedd yesterday evening, on behalf of the Assembly I would like to convey our condolences to those who were affected by the Orlando shootings. Today, our thoughts are with the injured and with the families and friends who have been bereaved. As an Assembly, we aspire to a world free from hate crimes of this kind. I ask Members to be upstanding for a minute’s silence in commemoration.

Assembly Members stood for a minute’s silence.

2. 1. Questions to the First Minister

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

Questions to the First Minister. Question 1, Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Sorry, Presiding Officer, do I read out the one in writing?

Yes.

Neil McEvoy AC: Thank you.

<p>Local Development Plans</p>

Neil McEvoy AC: 1. Will the First Minister make a statement on local development plans? OAQ(5)0054(FM)[R]

Carwyn Jones AC: Up-to-date adopted local development plans are an essential part of an effective planning system.

Neil McEvoy AC: Thank you. First Minister, the integrity of, and the people of Wales’s confidence in this Assembly are based on being able to believe what is said in this Chamber. In April 2012, you stated in public that Labour would implement its local development plan. Labour’s plans included allowing big business to concrete huge swathes of greenfield sites and, as a result, I published that you had announced plans to concrete Cardiff by stating your party would implement its LDP. You said in this Chamber on 24 April 2012 that my publications were wholly untrue and a blatant lie—your words, not mine. Last week—

Can you bring yourself to a question now please?

Neil McEvoy AC: Last week, you stated that you did not say what you have already said on the record.

Can you bring this to a question?

Neil McEvoy AC: Do you think that it is at all acceptable for Wales’s First Minister to come here and deny what you’ve already said? Will you set the record straight?

Carwyn Jones AC: The Member lives in a land of fantasy. He’s been living in it for the past three years and he didn’t even ask a proper question.

Neil McEvoy AC: Point of order.

There is no point of order. Hefin David.

Hefin David AC: Diolch, Lywydd. I’ve absolutely no idea what that was all about. This isn’t Cardiff council chamber—this is the National Assembly for Wales. What we are talking about is the issue of 22 local development plans across south-east Wales, which don’t connect very well, and the Welsh Government has already introduced, last year, the Planning Act 2015 to resolve those issues. A south-east Wales strategic development plan could involve all 10 local authorities, and it is certainly the case that with the Cardiff city region, the 10 local authority leaders are already on board, involved and supportive. Does the First Minister agree with me for the need to take such an approach into serious consideration, and does he also agree this can only be achieved by working together, not being party political and tribal, as Neil McEvoy is so intent on being?

Carwyn Jones AC: There are real challenges of course for the entire area of the south-east of Wales. Cardiff can’t be expected on its own, nor any other local authority, to provide housing for the entire region. That’s why it makes perfect sense, as my colleague, the Member for Caerphilly, says, that the 10 local authorities should work together in order to have a strategic plan that goes beyond the local development plans, which, of themselves, can never be enough to satisfy the demand that the success of the economy of south-east Wales will place on the local area.

Mark Isherwood.

Neil McEvoy AC: Presiding Officer, am I right in—

Mark Isherwood.

Neil McEvoy AC: Am I right in—

No, you’re not. You are not being heard. Mark Isherwood.

Mark Isherwood AC: Diolch. Well, of course, local development plans don’t build any houses. Given that, in England, local plans produced in consultation with the community have been the cornerstone of planning reforms, how will your Government engage with the Homebuilders Federation regarding the statement in its Welsh election paper, ‘Building Communities, Boosting Investment’, that, because of the many improvements in England, in terms of reduced regulation and greater land availability, the relative attraction of investing in the requisite land and skills in Wales has reduced over recent years? The results can be seen in the most recently published data on planning permissions, which show that, since the start of 2013, the number of private units granted planning permission in Wales has decreased by 4 per cent, whilst increasing by 49 per cent in England.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, we have seen significant increases in the number of houses being built in Wales over the past two years. It seems to me that, in England, the plans there are designed to block housing development and not to encourage housing development. What there needs to be, of course, is a properly regulated development plan so that people are able to see where development will take place. I don’t believe that local development plans, of themselves, are sufficient over a wider economic area, which is why strategic plans, to my mind, have a great deal of force and are a great deal of help when it comes to planning for the future.

<p>Opencast Mining</p>

Bethan Sayed AC: 2. Will the First Minister make a statement on opencast mining in Wales? OAQ(5)0043(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: There are serious issues, as she will know, of course, relating to opencast mining and the restoration of sites. We know that, in 1994, the UK Government did not require operators to set aside enough money for restoration, and so the UK Government have a moral responsibility to work with us to ensure that sites are restored.

Bethan Sayed AC: Thank you for that answer, First Minister. You will know that Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council recently passed a partial restoration of Margam opencast area. But, of course, that’s partial restoration, and many of the residents there are concerned about the future and the void not being restored, and also, with it being in Celtic Energy’s hands, for that full restoration to take place. I was wondering whether you could give us a commitment here today, First Minister, even though that’s not part of the plan, in terms of the void, whether you could seek to bring people together to look to restore that eventually, because I think people are concerned, especially as key people within the council are also concerned now about how that will be restored if there are any flooding problems within that void.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I agree with the concern that she expresses. She will know that there is an effect on my constituency as well. In 1994, when privatisation took place, those companies that took over former British Coal sites were specifically excluded from being required to put aside finance for restoration, and this is why we are where we are now. Partial restoration is welcome, but it isn’t full restoration, and there must be full restoration in time. Given the fact that it was the UK Government that created this problem, there is no doubt in my mind that they have a responsibility to work with us in order to resolve the problem.

Lynne Neagle AC: I’m sure Members across the Chamber will be pleased to welcome with me the withdrawal of Varteg opencast application in my constituency. And I’m very grateful to the International Council on Monuments and Sites UK, which I invited to visit the site last year, and to Cadw, for their objections, which led to the application being withdrawn. But, of course, most communities cannot rely on the protection of being in a World Heritage Site and do need to rely on us as a National Assembly and the protection that we give them. What assurances can you give that the review of MTAN 2 will be taken forward as a matter of priority by this Welsh Government?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I can assure the Member that a focused review of MTAN 2 was announced by the Minister prior to the UK Government’s announcement on coal-fired power stations, and that review, of course, will proceed, because we know that it’s important that the planning guidance is as up to date as possible.

Suzy Davies AC: First Minister, Members will know that the part restoration plans for Parc Slip are pretty unpopular, and none of us would wish to see the history behind that repeated. But we were talking about this in some detail over a year ago now. The local authority strongly asserts that there’s no alternative to the plans. So, is the Welsh Government holding direction of April of this year—that’s a whole year later—an indication of, perhaps, a prima facie case that perhaps there is an alternative to what’s being suggested by Neath Port Talbot, and, if not, what statutory time limits are preventing Welsh Government moving that holding direction sooner?

Carwyn Jones AC: The difficulty in the site, of course, is that the site at the moment is in the custody of a company that, in reality, doesn’t exist. It’s registered in the British Virgin Islands, and if legal action were to be taken against it, I have no confidence that that organisation would continue to exist, leaving nobody, as she knows, against whom legal action can lie. To my mind, it is important that the UK Government recognises its responsibilities. This was created not by the current UK Government but by a UK Government in 1994. There is no doubt that the amount of money we’re talking here for the full restoration of just one site at Parc Slip is huge. It cannot be reasonable to expect the local authority nor the Welsh Government to meet the full costs of that restoration.

<p>Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders</p>

I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister, and first this week I call the UKIP group leader, Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer.Bydd y Prif Weinidog yn gwybod bod ffermio yng Nghymru mewn argyfwng ar hyn o bryd.Mae incwm ffermydd yn gyffredinol 25 y cant yn is ac, mewn rhai sectorau, fel llaeth, maent gymaint â hanner yn is.Wrth gwrs, y cwymp mewn prisiau nwyddau sy’n achosi hyn i raddau helaeth, ond mae rhesymau gweinyddol y tu ôl iddo hefyd, yn enwedig yr anhrefn yn y system taliadau a chynllun y taliad sylfaenol.Mae problem benodol i ffermwyr trawsffiniol gyda thir yn Lloegr yn ogystal ag yng Nghymru, lle mae cannoedd ohonynt yn dal i fod heb gael eu talu, ac, yn wir, nid yw’r wybodaeth a ddarparwyd flwyddyn yn ôl wedi ei dilysu o hyd ac eto maen nhw'n— [Torri ar draws.]

I want to hear an important question on farming. Allow the Member to be heard.

Neil Hamilton AC: So, I’m going to ask the First Minister: what further progress has been made, particularly with the payments agency in England, to get these problems sorted out?

Carwyn Jones AC: The vast majority of payments in Wales have been made—over 90 per cent, if I recall correctly. There are, as the Member says, some cross-border farms that await payment, and that’s because we’re awaiting data. It’s not the first time it’s happened, but we’re awaiting data from the Rural Payments Agency. Until that data is available, it’s not possible to make full payment, unfortunately. We hope that it will be resolved swiftly.

Neil Hamilton AC: I fully agree with what the First Minister says, but it’s quite extraordinary that two Government agencies can’t find the means by which to talk to each other electronically whereas this happens quite naturally in the private sector and, indeed, in our private lives. So, I wonder what he can do to try to integrate the administrative arrangements between England and Wales in this respect, because farmers on the border are in very dire financial straits.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, the solution is not in our hands. We await data from the Rural Payments Agency. We’re ready to pay once that data is made available. It’s very difficult to integrate the administration given the fact that the payment schemes are very radically different, and so they should be because the nature of Welsh farming is very different to the nature of farming across much of England. But, as soon as that data is available, of course we will pay our farmers and we have a very good record of doing that over the last few years.

Neil Hamilton AC: There is another big problem that needs to be addressed, of course, and that’s with the growth of bovine TB. In fact, in my region, in Carmarthenshire, cases of cattle slaughtered as a result of bovine TB are up by 87 per cent this year and in Pembrokeshire up by 78 per cent. With the non-availability of vaccine, the preferred option isn’t available to us. So, what can the Welsh Government actually do to try to cope with the growing problem of bovine TB?

Carwyn Jones AC: The Member’s correct to point out that the vaccine is not available at present. I know that the Minister has held a meeting this week—or certainly at the end of last week—to look at this issue. There is a need to move forward with dealing with bovine TB. It can’t be left simply to proceed. The Minister is examining what science-led approach could be taken in order to make sure that, at the very least, there is a reduction in the presence of bovine TB and, in time, of course, eradication.

The leader of the opposition, Leanne Wood.

Leanne Wood AC: Diolch, Lywydd. I’m sure, First Minister, that you will have shared the warm feelings that I felt on seeing images of the Welsh fans in France singing and linking arms with fellow fans. They were ambassadors for our nation. I thought those images captured something about the naturalness of our place as Wales within Europe, singing with Slovakians—people from another small nation, bilingual and so on. As we approach the final week of the campaign—and families will be gathering together this weekend to work out the best options for them—good information is vital to enable people to make a fully informed choice. What can you and your Government do in the final week to make sure that people vote on accurate information and not on the basis of myth and propaganda?

Carwyn Jones AC: We can’t send out information as a Government—that’s covered by purdah—but of course, as politicians, we can make our case. I’ll be making the case, as I know she will, over the next few days that Wales is better off in the UK and the EU—well, maybe not the UK as far as she’s concerned, but the EU. [Laughter.] The EU.

Leanne Wood AC: We agree, First Minister, on our unity within Europe, and let’s just leave it at that for now. We are, in Wales, the most export-intensive nation within the UK. We’ve got a balance of trade payments surplus in terms of goods with the EU, and that isn’t the case for the UK. Uncertainty, therefore, will impact more upon Welsh businesses and the Welsh economy. We’ll be affected disproportionately here. I’m keen to understand what your Government’s contingency plans are if there is a vote to leave the EU next week. Can you please outline what plans your Government has to mitigate the worst effects for the Welsh economy and Welsh businesses, especially exporting businesses, in the event of a vote to leave the EU?

Carwyn Jones AC: It’s very difficult to produce a contingency plan when there’s such uncertainty. Nobody knows what would happen if there was to be a ‘leave’ vote. I took note of the fact that Nigel Farage himself last week said that it didn’t matter if there was a trade deal at all with the European Union. That’s disastrous for our farmers and for our exporters. For me, I’ve seen both campaigns, and at the end of the day it comes down to this: why would we put an unnecessary hurdle over which we would have to jump before us when it comes to attracting investment into Wales? It is a huge advantage to have free access to an enormous market, the EU. The UK is a tenth of that market. We have access to that market. To lose that access or to jeopardise that market simply puts another wall in front of us when it comes to attracting investment and when it comes to exporting. The last thing we need to do is to make it harder to export what we produce in Wales, and harder to attract investment into Wales.

Leanne Wood AC: I share your concerns, First Minister, and I think we need to think very carefully about what happens in the event of a vote to leave next week. Now, former Prime Ministers Blair and Major waded into the debate saying that one of the other likely consequences of a vote to leave could be the break-up of the UK. Now, I accept that our parties have got two very different views on that, but I’m sure that we’re both agreed that we want to stop a situation whereby Wales is at the total mercy of a Tory Government that we have never, ever in this country voted for. What contingency plans do you have for Wales if we find ourselves part of a rump UK where we will risk facing a Tory Government, or an even more right-wing Government than the present one, on a permanent basis? What plans do you have to protect and promote Wales’s best interests under this scenario?

Carwyn Jones AC: Again, it’s impossible to predict what might happen in the event of a leave vote. There are serious consequences for Northern Ireland—a part of the wold I know very, very well. The peace process is based on EU membership and what happens to the peace process is difficult to predict. The border is open with a motorway over it, and that border would be the border between the UK and the EU. It would need border control and customs control, so it means shutting a motorway down, and shutting down most of the roads, as happened in the days of the Troubles. That is hugely difficult for the people who live on that island.It’s difficult to know what the people of Scotland might think, but at the very least there needs to be—and this is regardless of the result next week, because I’ve said it before—a full reassessment of the relationship between the nations of the UK. The current constitution doesn’t work. The concept, to my mind—I’ve said it before—of parliamentary sovereignty doesn’t work. I think we need to move towards a system of shared sovereignty. It happens in Canada, and there’s no reason why it shouldn’t happen here. But there is no question, if there is a ‘leave’ vote next week, that the UK can just carry on as before. That simply isn’t possible if it wishes to remain stable.

Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, last week in response to my questions on the deal that you struck with the Liberal Democrats, you indicated that your Government would be making available an additional £42 million to meet that commitment over and above the Labour manifesto commitment of £100 million to education. You also then went on to say that if you had the responsibility over the Severn bridge tolls, you would abolish Severn bridge tolls, and that in itself could crystallise in a liability for your Government of between £15 and £20 million. You personally have put a lot of political capital into the most expensive option for the M4 relief road, the black route, which is anything from £1 billion to £1.2 billion. What money tree has the Welsh Government uncovered in Cathays Park that gives you confidence that you are going to suddenly find all this new money to meet these commitments that you are making in the opening weeks of this fifth Assembly?

Carwyn Jones AC: So, he is against more spending on education; he is against the abolition of the Severn tolls; he is against the M4 relief road. These are three things that, apparently, he was in favour of last week. We have pressed the UK Government for the devolution of the tolls. We would expect there to be a fair financial settlement to reflect that, so that we can get rid of this tax on people coming into Wales. That is what we stand for as a Government. It is unclear where his party stands now.

Andrew RT Davies AC: First Minister, it is not unreasonable to ask the question: what will have to give in your spending commitments to meet your new commitments? I’ve identified £42 million that you’ve committed to last week; a potential liability of £15 million to £20 million if you get rid of the Severn bridge tolls at the end of the public concession—the concessions to the current Severn bridge user; and, also, if you build the black route, the £1 billion to £1.2 billion liability that you as a Government will have to finance. Now, I don’t think that’s unreasonable. People in north Wales, mid Wales and west Wales ask those very questions. If the big capital projects in south-east Wales get the go-ahead, what will have to give in their own areas? So, I put the question to you again—not unreasonably from our position of opposition: where are you going to find this money to meet those commitments that you have given on the record, because you only have a set amount of money available to you? Can you just answer a simple question?

Carwyn Jones AC: Borrowing it. That’s the whole point. The money for the M4 relief road, whatever it looks like, will be borrowed. The point of that is to make sure that (a) we’re able to do it, because we would not be able to build an M4 relief road of any shape or form if we didn’t borrow the money; and, secondly, through borrowing the money, it doesn’t eat into the roads budget. So, it means that road schemes elsewhere are protected in Wales, they can move forward, and that’s on the basis that the M4 relief road would not take a chunk out of the roads budget. So, it is possible to do both—as the Prime Minister himself has said.

Andrew RT Davies AC: As a Conservative, I fully understand that you can borrow, but you have to pay back borrowing and that has a cost in itself, year in, year out. But, I did also ask you about the education commitment that you made, which we welcome. I also made a comment about the £15 million to £20 million that you would have to meet if you were to abolish the Severn bridge tolls, which, again, in some quarters, is supported. So, how will you meet those liabilities? Those are perfectly legitimate questions. In total, that’s an extra £60 million you will have to find out of the Welsh block grant. Some commitments will have to give. Also, on the black route, there is upfront cost that cannot be borrowed against and you will have to meet that out of day-to-day expenditure. From our position of opposition, it is our job to ask you these questions and I’d hope that you as a Government would have the answers that we would require to satisfy our constituents. Or, are you just making it up as you’re going along?

Carwyn Jones AC: No. I sat here—or stood here, in fact—in the Chamber before the election, listening to the leader of the opposition, as he was then, saying that they would make spending commitments across the board, not knowing where that money was going to come from. It’s a legitimate question and there are two answers to it. First of all, yes, we will have to examine some of our current spending commitments—not our commitments in the manifesto—and that will happen during the course of the budget process, because the money will have to come from somewhere, that’s true. But, secondly, even though we will see real-term cuts in the block grant that we receive, there will be an uplift in the amount of money available. So, there will be extra money, even if it isn’t sufficient to cover inflation. So, yes, there will be difficult decisions that we’ll have to take over the course of the next year or two, but we’re confident that the money can be found and that will become clear during the budget process.

<p>Membership of the European Union</p>

Julie Morgan AC: 3. What have been the main benefits for Wales of EU membership during the fourth Assembly? OAQ(5)0055(FM)

Steffan Lewis AC: 5. What is the Welsh Government's assessment of the importance of Wales’s membership of the European Union? OAQ(5)0040(FM)[W]

Carwyn Jones AC: Thank you. Llywydd, I understand you’ve given your permission for questions 3 and 5 to be grouped. The benefits to Wales of EU membership are wide ranging and fundamental to our prosperity. We know that, in recent years, EU funds have supported significant investments in the Welsh economy and labour market.

Julie Morgan AC: I thank the First Minister for that response. Scientists and universities in Wales have spoken out strongly about the importance of remaining in the EU. Is the First Minister aware that Cardiff University alone has received Horizon 2020 funding for 49 projects at a value of £16.9 million, and that this money enables the university to build working relationships with leading experts all over the European Union and to develop really important groundbreaking research, such as testing innovative vaccines for type 1 diabetes, solar powered water purification and working out how the brain works? Do we want to throw all these opportunities away?

Carwyn Jones AC: No, we don’t. Higher education operates not on a little-Britain model but on a world model. It’s important that there’s access to as much finance as possible and access to as much academic brain power as possible. We also see of course, for example, in Swansea University, where the new campus has been built partially with the help of European money. Cutting ourselves off from the main stream is not the way to advance science in the UK.

Steffan Lewis AC: As the First Minister knows, if the British state remains a member of the European Union, it will hold the presidency of the council for six months next year. That would be a golden opportunity to start the process of renewing Europe and creating a partnership that works better for our citizens. Would the First Minister agree to ensure that that presidency is one that is held jointly between the various Governments of the UK, with Wales playing a key role, and even consider holding a European summit here in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, firstly, of course, we must ensure that the United Kingdom is still part of the European Union after next week. It’s very important that we should be positive about what the European Union has done, namely that it’s brought democracy to eastern European countries; namely that funding has gone to those areas of Europe that needed it; namely, of course, investment in a number of parts of Europe that wouldn’t have seen such investment previously. It would be extremely odd if the United Kingdom took the European Union presidency on the way out of the union. And, of course, it is important after the referendum next Thursday that that positive message is preached, if you like, not just across Wales, but across the whole of Europe.

David Melding AC: First Minister, you may have seen a ‘leave’ broadcast last week that said that Britain’s EU contributions would be spent on the NHS should we leave the European Union. We’ve also been told that they’re going to be spent on guaranteeing Welsh regional aid, they also guarantee payments to farmers, and now, oh wonder, oh wonder of magic money, it’s going to preserve the amounts that are going to Welsh universities. Do you agree with me that a better way to preserve all of these valuable contributions to our economy is to vote to remain in the European Union next Thursday?

Carwyn Jones AC: The Member puts it well, and I could not improve on that, but he’s right to say that we have certainty now; we’ll have no certainty if we choose to leave next Thursday. It’s a jump off the edge of a cliff. I noted today that—. I saw a letter signed by various backbenchers and Ministers from London, saying that funding would be guaranteed, but they have no such power—no such power—to offer that guarantee. At least with the vow before the Scottish referendum, those who signed it had the power to deliver on it; those who signed this letter have no more power to deliver on it than my children’s pet cat.

David J Rowlands AC: Given that one of the Labour Party’s great benefits of belonging to the European Union is the workers’ rights legislation, supposedly emanating from Brussels, perhaps the First Minister would like to comment on the rights of those workers formerly employed at the Bosch plant bordering his constituency, and perhaps reflect on the fact that it was British money, used in regional aid, that actually built the brand-new plant in Hungary, which cost them their jobs, along, of course, with all their workers’ rights.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, the issue with Bosch was that—. It’s right to say that the factory did move to Hungary. Most of those people who were employed there found jobs elsewhere, actually, very quickly. Renishaw now, of course, own the site and Renishaw are developing very, very quickly. But, we need to be careful here, because we are successful at attracting investment from other countries. So, it does work both ways. And yes, we need to make sure that those who have suffered most from globalisation are protected. That has been a weakness, I have to say, because globalisation has not been an unmitigated benefit for so many workers. Whatever happens after Thursday, the idea that we must live in an age of austerity forever and we must live in an age where workers’ rights are consistently whittled away, that must be defeated, because the working people of Wales and Britain will not accept that. But, he and I will be in a different position in terms of how we resolve that. I don’t see that leaving the EU and putting us in the hands of those who signed that letter, who are wild free-marketeers who care nothing for workers’ rights, is actually the way forward. But, the days when we could say to people, ‘Globalisation is all a good thing’ are gone, and we have to make sure, across Europe, that people’s rights are protected, that workers’ rights are protected, and that people truly feel that Governments are on their side, and many Governments have lost their way in that regard.

Vikki Howells AC: The previous Member talked about one business; I would like to draw attention to the fact that 770 businesses have been created across Rhondda Cynon Taf, including in my constituency of Cynon Valley, thanks to EU funding, employing local people and contributing to the local economy. First Minister, do you agree with me that our continued membership of the EU and the support it provides are essential to contributing an environment where businesses in Wales can thrive?

Carwyn Jones AC: I do. I think we have to remember that the European money that we have seen coming into Wales is money that was not provided by successive British Governments in the 1980s and 1990s; it did not come to Wales. This is extra money that the Tories in the 1980s and 1990s would not provide for Wales. We still have a situation where the Barnett formula has not been addressed properly. At least we can rely on that European funding. What would happen if it wasn’t there? That money would end up back in the Barnett formula or end up being kept in London, and regions of England, as well as Wales and Scotland, would not see that money; it would be kept in Whitehall. I don’t buy this argument that somehow this is money that would come to Wales; I think this is money, if it does exist at all—I mean, the Member David Melding has made this point—that would sit in Whitehall and we would not see every penny that we get now, and that is dangerous for the people of Wales.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas. No? Mark Reckless.

Mark Reckless AC: The First Minister said earlier that he didn’t want exporters to face unnecessarily high hurdles, and, in setting out the challenges to the steel industry, he’s emphasised his view that the pound has been too high. Would he therefore welcome a more competitive level for the pound, including against the euro?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, it depends what you mean by ‘competitive’. If it’s going to plummet, that, as he knows full well, will drive inflation, because we import so much. More than anything else, what the steel industry needs is a market, and, if it cannot enter the European market or any other world market without a tariff being imposed, then the steel industry doesn’t have a future. The UK is not big enough to drive demand for the UK steel industry. And, to my mind, what concerns me more than anything else is that I do not believe that there is a plan for what happens if we leave. Nigel Farage himself has said it doesn’t matter if there’s a trade deal or not. That is absolutely disastrous for the UK’s economy. We export—[Interruption.] Well, we export half of what we produce. We export half of it to the EU: half of our exports go there. Coming the other way, it’s 7 per cent; that’s the difference. It may be a higher figure financially, but percentage-wise we export far more than comes back in. And what worries me is that our export market will be jeopardised, Welsh lamb will be hit by a double whammy where it would cost more to sell Welsh lamb on the continent, and yet I hear your party say you want a trade deal with New Zealand—that means floods of New Zealand lamb coming in cheaply into Wales. So, there are some consequences here that have not been thought through. Better, I say, that we don’t have the barriers to export that leaving the UK would put in place. Better not to have that, and better to have a situation where, yes, we’re able to export freely and we’re able to get access to those funds. We will not get those funds and not get that guaranteed access if we leave.

<p>Business Development</p>

Lynne Neagle AC: 4. Will the First Minister outline how the Welsh Government supports the development of business in Wales? OAQ(5)0051(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: As a pro-business Government we are delivering on a range of actions to help new and existing businesses to develop, grow and prosper.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you, First Minister, and, as you’ve highlighted, there’s no escaping the fact that the outcome of the referendum next week will have a huge impact on businesses in Wales—if you just take Jobs Growth Wales, a Welsh Labour Government programme, which, with the support of EU funds, has enabled small employers to take on one or two people and has helped to support more than 15,000 young people into work over the last few years alone. I’m sure you’ll have seen yesterday a letter signed by 10 top Welsh business figures in Wales, including Laura Tenison, the founder of JoJo Maman Bébé, who started her business in Torfaen, arguing the case for Britain to remain in the EU. First Minister, would you agree with me and those leading Welsh business figures that Welsh businesses are stronger, safer and better off in the European Union?

Carwyn Jones AC: I will. As I say, half of what we export goes to the EU—half of it. You interfere with that market at your peril. Many of our largest employers—Ford, for example, in my own constituency—are part of a European operation. That’s why accessing the European market is all-essential for them; that’s why they’re in the UK. There’s no incentive for them to stay in the UK if they can’t access the European market. There is no incentive for investors to come into the UK, because its market is too small, if they can’t access the European market. We know that we are able to export freely at the moment, we know that our farmers—and our lamb farmers particularly, who are absolutely dependent on exports to the EU—they’re able to do that. And it is absolutely crucial that we say, ‘We are a positive, confident country, we do not need to hide behind walls, we do not need to put our heads in the sand.’ And a sign of that confidence is being part of something bigger, ensuring the prosperity of all.

Adam Price AC: One of the Government’s aims in terms of business development is to enhance the level of public procurement by Welsh businesses, and it is an aim that Plaid Cymru would agree with. But, if that is the case, then why has Business Wales cut the number of tender advisers that they were funding down from some 12 to 14 just a few years ago to two or three now, and what impact does the First Minister think that that will have on the ability of Welsh businesses to gain contracts in the public sector here in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, the thing is to ensure that a development bank is established, and to use that structure to strengthen and enhance the advice that is available to businesses. It is an age-old problem as regards accessing procurement and accessing capital. We’ve worked very hard with businesses to ensure that more and more businesses from Wales are able to secure these contracts, particularly in the public sector in Wales, and we’ve seen an increase in these over the years. There are many measures in place in order to strengthen the position further.

Russell George AC: First Minister, the Severn Valley Effect was launched nearly two years ago, covering the Severn valley area. I should also declare an interest in having an involvement in the project. Now, the project has helped more than 75 people to start or grow their businesses in my constituency. Funding for the project has been supported by the Welsh Government and it’s due to come to an end in August, and additional funding is being sought to secure the future of this service. Will you commit the Welsh Government to looking at how the success of this project can be used as a blueprint to support enterprises in other communities in other parts of Wales, and can I also ask that you consider joining me to visit people who have benefitted from this project the next time you’re in Montgomeryshire?

Carwyn Jones AC: If the Member would write to me with that invitation I will of course consider it. He makes a strong case for the scheme that he has mentioned. We’re always keen to make sure that we look at schemes that have worked effectively across the whole of Wales in order to see how they can be rolled out across the rest of the country.

<p>Priorities for the NHS</p>

Darren Millar AC: 6. Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government’s priorities for the NHS? OAQ(5)0045(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes, they’re set out in our manifesto.

Darren Millar AC: Thank you very much indeed, First Minister. One of the commitments that you gave during the election period was that within 100 days you would consult on whether the Betsi Cadwaladr university health board ought to be divided into two or more health organisations. Have you abandoned that commitment or are we going to see a proposal come forward from your new Government?

Carwyn Jones AC: We’ve not abandoned the commitment to consult people on the future structure of the health service in the north, no; that commitment remains in place.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Among Plaid Cymru’s priorities in this Assembly will be pressing for real measures to tackle recruitment within the health service, as is reflected in the post-election compact. But will the First Minister acknowledge, along with me, in the meantime, the contribution made by health professionals from the European Union to dealing with the recruitment problem that we have in the health service at present, and the threat to that from the campaign to leave the European Union?

Carwyn Jones AC: The Member is right to say that medicine and nursing is a global market; people travel the world with the qualifications that they have, and, of course, there are a number of nurses and doctors working in the NHS in Wales who come from other European Union countries or outwith the European Union, for example, the nurses in the hospital in Bridgend who come from the Philippines, very many of them. Without those people, we wouldn’t have a health service in Wales, nor in the rest of the United Kingdom either. So, it’s extremely important that no obstacles are placed in their way to stop them from coming to Wales or the rest of the United Kingdom, because it will the patients that will suffer.

Nathan Gill AC: First Minister, I received a letter from one of my constituents who is a health worker who’s been working in the NHS for 19 years. He expresses his concerns about the Betsi Cadwaladr health board. He says the service is floundering for lack of strategic direction and he goes on to say the effect of this means that individuals are now burnt out and stepping aside or looking for early retirement. What is the Welsh Government going to do to fix this situation and to deliver the health service that the people of north Wales deserve?

Carwyn Jones AC: I think the Member’s comments would have been fair at one time; I don’t think they’re fair now. We obviously put Betsi Cadwaladr into special measures. We know that there were problems—

Nathan Gill AC: They’re not my comments; they’re a constituent’s comments.

Carwyn Jones AC: I take what the Member says. I don’t think the comments are correct now. We put Betsi Cadwaladr into special measures. We have seen significant improvements—ambulance times, for example, were one thing—in terms of the delivery of services in the area. And rightly so because it was quite clear to us at the time that the local health board was not delivering as it should—certainly it wasn’t communicating with people as it should. The situation now I believe has improved markedly. But, nevertheless, it’s important to take on board the comments of those who work in the health service in order to make sure that every possibility for improvement is being taken.

<p>Local Councils’ Regulatory Powers</p>

Neil Hamilton AC: 7. Will the First Minister issue guidance to local councils to act proportionately when exercising their regulatory powers? OAQ(5)0056(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: That guidance already exists. The regulators’ code sets out good practice in how regulatory functions should be exercised, and local authorities are encouraged to act within the code.

Neil Hamilton AC: I thank the First Minister for that reply, but is he aware of the problems that have been faced by The Union pub in Tremadog in north Wales in my region where, having been closed for several months on account of flooding, over the bank holiday weekend, the landlady decided, because it was sunny, to put out tables and chairs for drinkers to drink outside, which was very successful. Unfortunately, a killjoy from Gwynedd county council came around and told her to remove the tables because, technically, they were on a highway. In fact, it’s normally a car park. This is a prime example of the kind of heavy-handed actions that local authorities can take that discourage business and discourage wealth creation.

Carwyn Jones AC: I wasn’t aware. I know where The Union is in Tremadog. [Laughter.] I know full well where The Union Inn is, but I must say he has caught me there in terms of the detail. I will write to him, of course. He raises an issue that is important to The Union Inn, I understand that—or indeed to any pub, and pubs have faced difficulty for many years because of changing habits. I will investigate the situation and I will, of course, provide a full answer to the Member.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: First Minister, regulatory services are, of course, a very important service and a valuable key area of local government—environmental health, trading standards, food safety, public protection, regulatory housing provisions, to name just some. But much of the new legislation passed in the last Assembly term has actually placed even more obligations on our departments and there’s only 1 per cent of councils’ spend on average being spent on these services across Wales on an annual basis. How will you work with the new Cabinet member for—Secretary for local government, Mark Drakeford, who I very much look forward to shadowing over this Assembly term—? How will you work with him to make sure that our regulatory departments have the appropriate and adequate funding in order to keep our constituents across Wales actually safe?

Carwyn Jones AC: It won’t come as a surprise to the Member when I say that I will work closely with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. And, of course, we will seek to provide local government with an appropriate level of funding, bearing in mind the level of funding we ourselves get from the UK Government.

<p>Welsh Speakers</p>

Siân Gwenllian AC: 8. Will the First Minister make a statement on the government’s plan to increase the number of Welsh speakers in Wales? OAQ(5)0046(FM)[W]

Carwyn Jones AC: Ensuring that the Welsh language prospers in Wales remains a priority for the Welsh Government, and we will continue to deliver the priorities set out in the ‘Bwrw Mlaen’, with a focus on increasing people’s use of the language. We also want to improve planning and develop the infrastructure through technology and standards and increasing Welsh language education also.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you. I’m very pleased to hear that, but your manifesto did set a target of a million speakers by 2050—I’m sure that you agree with that, and that is an excellent thing, and I congratulate you on setting such a target, which means that, 34 years hence, we will have doubled the number of Welsh speakers that we have at present, but how are you going to proceed to do that, what are the action points that you’ll be taking, and on what exactly will you be focusing, and what is the timetable for that action? Would you agree with me that it appears to the public that the political ambition does not exist, bearing in mind that you have now moved the Welsh language out of the Cabinet? There is a Minister with responsibility for the Welsh language; I don’t doubt his commitment and his passion for the Welsh language, but he’s not centrally part of the Cabinet by now, and so one can be rather sceptical about this ambition by now. Do you agree with me about that, and how are you going to progress matters? How can you convince me that the Welsh language is a priority for this Government?

Carwyn Jones AC: The Welsh language is a priority for me as one who comes from an entirely Welsh-speaking family and one who has children attending a Welsh-medium school. Therefore, this is something that is prospering across Government, although there is a Minister that has individual responsibility for the language. There will be a full statement during Eisteddfod week on the details of how we are going to progress in this area. But, of course, we need to ensure that there is more Welsh-language education available. This is extremely important. In some parts of Wales, it is difficult to access Welsh-medium schools, particularly Welsh-medium comprehensives, which are occasionally a long way away from where people live. That needs to change in years to come, and that’s why there are plans in place by local authorities to ensure that change is secured—and also to ensure that the new national centre, which will assist Welsh for adults to prosper, does work effectively. But there will be a full statement during August.

Jeremy Miles AC: Will the First Minister join me in giving good wishes to Tŷ’r Gwrhyd language centre in Pontardawe in my constituency, which has just been launched with significant from the Welsh Government? Does he agree that there is a fundamental role for language centres in developing the need in our communities for public and business services through the medium of Welsh?

Carwyn Jones AC: I very warmly welcome the opening of that centre—we’ve invested in it. Of course, the Swansea valley is an area that has gone from being a majority Welsh-speaking area to an area where the Welsh language tends to be spoken at the top of the valley—that has happened in a period of 30 years, which is a substantial decline in that time. It’s very important that we ensure that the Welsh language is viable beyond Ystalyfera towards Ynysmeudwy and Pontardawe, and to Clydach and further afield, in order to ensure that the Welsh heritage of the area is revitalised.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, according to the language use survey 2013-15 that was commissioned by your last Government, it was demonstrated that only about 50 per cent of people in Pembrokeshire thought that businesses were supportive of the language. Given this figure, what does your Government intend to do to ensure that businesses are given greater support to promote the Welsh language?

Carwyn Jones AC: A pilot project is taking place in the Teifi valley to ensure that businesses don’t feel that it’s too difficult to ensure that a Welsh-language service is provided, and also to demonstrate that this is something that would be commercially beneficial to them, so that they can provide services to those who wish to use the Welsh language, or those who feel that it is important that that services should be available. Therefore, we will consider the outcomes of that project to see how we can ensure that businesses do see the commercial benefits of using the Welsh language within their own businesses.

And finally, question 9—Hannah Blythyn.

<p>Childcare Support</p>

Hannah Blythyn AC: 9. Will the First Minister provide an update on the implementation of childcare support for working parents in Wales? OAQ(5)0050(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: We are committed to offering 30 hours of free childcare to three and four-year-olds of working parents for 48 weeks a year, the most generous offer in the UK. A delivery plan will be published shortly.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Thank you, First Minister. I welcome your commitment to working parents. I know this is a huge issue for my constituents; it’s been raised with me time and time again in correspondence and in conversations as well. Whilst it’s fantastic that we’re offering the most ambitious childcare support in the UK, it’s important that it works well and fits the lives of working parents today. What assurances can you give that childcare support will be flexible and that its delivery will both take into account and meet the needs of working parents?

Carwyn Jones AC: That’s exactly what it must do. One thing I have to say is that the intention is not to displace existing childcare providers. What the scheme will do is help them, in fact, because it’ll mean that they will have a greater source of income than is the case now, and, in many parts of Wales, childcare provision is non-existent, so it will help to stimulate childcare provision in many parts of Wales as well. We know that for many parents, at three and four years old, that is the time when people are looking to go back to work and that’s the time when it’s most difficult and most expensive to get access to childcare, which is why, of course, we made this pledge.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Creating the provision that you refer to for working families is something that should be welcomed, but you will be very aware, of course, that it would be desirable to expand that provision to all families, because that would create opportunities for parents who currently aren’t working to return to the workplace, as many do want to do. So, what consideration are you giving to extending that provision?

Carwyn Jones AC: We asked the Public Policy Institute for Wales to look at this to see what would be the best way of delivering this: to do it broadly or to target it at those who are working. According to their evidence, the most effective way would be to target working people, because of the fact that people who don’t work at present have informal networks that assist them with childcare. What we want to ensure is that we can encourage people back into the labour market so that they will then get free childcare. That is the principle behind the scheme as it stands.

Darren Millar AC: First Minister, in England, of course, there’s already an entitlement for 15 hours’ worth of childcare each and every week versus the entitlement to just 10 hours here in Wales. I know some local authorities are providing more than that at present, but it’s certainly not something that reaches across the board. Given that there is already a second-rate deal, as it where, for parents here in Wales, can I ask you for a very clear timetable by which you expect to be able to transition to this 30 hours? Can we see an immediate jump to the 15 hours so that at least we’ve got a level-playing field between England and Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: I saw the commitment that was made by his party in the election. I never understood it because it was never clear. We were absolutely clear what we were offering to working parents, and it was reflected in the respective results of the parties, I would argue. We will roll this out as what was our main pledge of our five first pledges as soon as we can.

Thank you, First Minister.

3. 2. Business Statement and Announcement

This business statement and announcement is next. I call on Jane Hutt.

Jane Hutt AC: There have been several changes to the business statement for this week’s business, Llywydd. Today’s business now also includes oral statements on building on our recycling success for a circular economy, apprenticeships in Wales, volunteering week and a report on the working group on the Welsh language and local government. Additionally, the Business Committee agreed to the reordering of tomorrow afternoon’s debates. Business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement found among the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Lynne Neagle AC: Can I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on the ‘Together for Mental Health’ consultation, which closed shortly before dissolution? The document covers a wide range of important mental health issues, but it is the proposals on a dementia-friendly nation that I want to focus on. Having led the short debate in January calling for a comprehensive and fully resourced national dementia strategy for Wales, I responded to the consultation echoing the goals and actions I consider vital: dementia training, support workers, public awareness campaigns, to name just a few. Given that this consultation is now closed and a new Government and Minister are in place, I’d be grateful for a statement with an update on progress so far, setting out priorities and timescales going forward.

Jane Hutt AC: I think Lynne Neagle has consistently raised these issues and played a full part in terms of responding to the consultation, seeing it in the context of ‘Together for Mental Health’, the delivery plan. Of course, as you say, the formal consultation is now closed. So, we are committed to developing a new dementia strategic action plan for Wales, working closely with key stakeholders. The final version of that delivery plan will be published in the summer.

Simon Thomas AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I would like to raise two issues with you, and I do hope that the Government will be able to respond with statements on these issues. First of all, we today commemorate the massacre in Orlando with a minute’s silence in this Chamber, and it was noted that the flags of the Assembly and the Welsh Government were at half-mast today and yesterday, with the rainbow banner among them, of course. Can we therefore have a further statement from the Government on its policy on flags? You will recall that I raised this with you last when the Welsh Government actually raised its flags to half-mast to commemorate the death of the King of Saudia Arabia, which was an insult to the people of Wales in my view. Now, the First Minister said at that time that there would be a review of the policy, and rather than slavishly following the advice of the Foreign Office, the Welsh Government would develop its own policy. What, therefore, has been the outcome of that review? Can we have a statement from the First Minister explaining the guidance now in place for Government, in order to decide when flags should be flown at half-mast?The second question I’d like to raise with you is that this Assembly has a reputation for being innovative in legislating in two languages, and the Government is working in the same way. It was a disappointment, therefore, for me to see that Chris Grayling, the leader of the other House, had rejected calls for the use of the Welsh language in the Welsh Grand Committee in that other place. Those demands, to be fair, had been led by Chris Bryant. Now, the Welsh language can be used at that committee when it meets in Wales. We knew that because I did so myself in Cwmbran some years ago, and it’s about time that the same right should be made available when the committee meets in the House of Commons itself. Could you, therefore, as the business manager in this place, lead the way in providing practical support for the Commons to actually overcome the prejudices that they have against the use of the Welsh language, to provide advice from Government so that that can be achieved, and to report back in the appropriate way to this place?

Jane Hutt AC: Diolch yn fawr, Simon Thomas. Certainly, I think on your first point, it’s worth just spending a moment recognising the tragedy and the massacre at Orlando and the fact that we did bring together a lot of people yesterday outside the Senedd—members and allies of the LGBT community, people of different faiths, joining Wales with other nations in that show of strength and solidarity for all those who are affected by the tragic and deeply saddening attack in Orlando. Of course, we were able to have that moment of silence, very appropriately, at the beginning of this session today. As you said, the First Minister did say he would review that policy, and I’m certainly happy to follow that up. It was very good to see the rainbow flag with the Welsh dragon, and the recognition of that in the way that we as an Assembly had pulled together in support. I think that was very welcome last night. But I would also say that, of course, this is about how Welsh Government, the Assembly and Stonewall Cymru work so closely together to tackle LGBT inequality.I want to say on your second point that I was also very disappointed. I will certainly be happy to not only approach the Leader of the House of Commons, but also to work with the shadow leader, Chris Bryant, on this issue. Again, it not only is disappointing, it’s disrespectful in terms of the Welsh Grand Committee, not just in terms of those entitlements and rights, but the respect for the way in which we here, of course, work together with our two languages.

Paul Davies AC: Leader of the house, I’d be grateful if you could please ask the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs to bring forward a statement clarifying the Welsh Government’s new approach to dealing with bovine TB. As has already been said in this Chamber today, recently published official Government statistics show that there has been a huge year-on-year increase of 78 per cent in the number of cattle slaughtered in Pembrokeshire as a result of bovine TB. Now, in last week’s business statement, you said, in response to the Member for North Wales, that this will be an issue for the Cabinet Secretary in terms of one of her early considerations of the situation. Given that the Welsh Government has suspended the vaccination programme, it’s quite clear that the Government does not have a current policy to eradicate bovine TB. In the circumstances, can you please encourage the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs to bring forward a statement on this issue as soon as possible so that Welsh farmers can understand exactly what the Welsh Government’s approach to dealing with bovine TB actually is?

Jane Hutt AC: Paul Davies, I’m very happy to repeat, I’m sure, the same words that I used last week in terms of questions on the business statement: the Welsh Government is committed, led by the Cabinet Secretary, to deliver that science-led approach to the eradication of bovine TB. Our comprehensive TB eradication programme—that is our policy, led by the Welsh Government—includes annual testing of cattle, strict biosecurity measures and movement controls. This approach, of course, is aimed at tackling all sources of infection. I again repeat those statistics: between May 2011 and November 2015—that’s the latest period for which we’ve got results—the trend in new TB incidents in Wales fell by 19 per cent. There is no sign that the supply issue regarding the BCG vaccine will be resolved in the short term. Of course, when it does become available, we will make a decision on the way forward with vaccination in Wales, and continue in terms of implementing the policies. A new TB Order came into force on 1 April, changing the way farmers are compensated for cattle slaughtered for TB, and those changes do aim to reduce the risk of the disease spreading by encouraging best practice, and that does follow a full consultation with the industry. Of course, it is a question of discussing with the farming community, which the Cabinet Secretary is undertaking, to ensure that they are fully aware of our commitment in terms of the positive approach that we’re taking with our TB eradication programme.

Mark Reckless AC: I’d like to thank the Minister for Government business for her statement. We have five statements today—four newly announced. I just wondered if the number of statements reflect the fact we’ve come through a recess, Ministers have been recently appointed and are perhaps finding their feet following the election, and there are more statements than one might normally expect, or has there been a particular decision, with the self-denying ordinance, I believe, on legislation for the first 100 days, to use the opportunity of Government time to perhaps give statements on a wider range of issues than would be the norm?

Jane Hutt AC: Mark Reckless, I’m very glad you welcome the fact that there are oral statements from a number of Cabinet Secretaries today. It is vital that Welsh Government and our Cabinet Secretaries do have the opportunity to update the Assembly. Of course, questions on my Business Committee statement always raise other issues that I know you would like Cabinet Secretaries to make statements on, and, of course, they will appear in due course. This is an opportunity, and I’m sure the statement this afternoon will receive robust scrutiny from across the Chamber.

Mike Hedges AC: There is a substantial need in Wales for good-quality housing, not least in Swansea East. I would like to ask for a statement by the Minister with housing as part of their portfolio on how they intend to increase the availability of social and co-operative housing, including support for councils such as Swansea building new council houses?

Jane Hutt AC: Well, I know that the Minister is very committed indeed, with former responsibilities for housing in previous portfolios, to progressing not only investment in social housing, but also in the more innovative ways in which social housing can be delivered through the co-operative approach. Of course, there have been pilots that were undertaken by the former Minister with responsibility, Lesley Griffiths, in terms of co-operative housing as one route to ways in which we can provide that affordable housing, with new ways in which they can be managed as well.

Mark Isherwood AC: I call for a single statement on support for Wales’s armed forces veterans, following the ‘Call to Mind: Wales’ report, published at the beginning of this month, which showed that much more needs to be done to support the mental health needs of veterans in Wales. Only a fraction of the estimated 10,000 Welsh veterans living with mental illness of some form are being referred to NHS Wales. The report was commissioned by the Forces in Mind Trust, but based on interviews with veterans and their families and people working in the voluntary and independent sector. It called for increased Veterans’ NHS Wales capacity; increased data to inform, commissioning and service provision; more to support family and carers; and it highlighted the work needed to progress and to identify the need for involvement, liaison and action with people in the armed forces, serving and/or at transition into civilian life, and proposes that veterans and family members’ mental and related health needs are considered in the new legislation introduced at the end of the last Assembly, such as the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 and Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.So, could I call for a statement? We need a statement detailing the Welsh Government’s proposals and the new health Minister’s proposals to make assessment of, and provision for, the mental health needs of Wales’s veterans a priority of this Welsh Government.

Jane Hutt AC: This Welsh Government will be very happy to provide that statement, Mark Isherwood. Of course, as you say, although led by the Minister for communities and children, this will also involve other Ministers, including the Minister for health, and it provides an appropriate opportunity for me to respond today, in answer to that question on the business statement, that we will progress with a statement, as you called for.

Neil Hamilton AC: I’d like to ask the leader of the house about a point of practice about the issuing of statements to opposition parties in advance of their being read out in this Chamber. I appreciate the courtesy that this is, and it is important, I think, that debate and scrutiny should be informed, for that debate and scrutiny to be best. Today, I received copies of these statements at 13:20, so that didn’t leave any time at all before coming down to the Chamber to read them. I appreciate that today’s statements are not exactly controversial, but there will come a time when they are controversial, and they may require a bit of research in order to respond to them properly. So, I’m wondering if the leader of the house would undertake today to ensure that, in future, the Welsh Government does give opposition parties proper notice of statements, so that they can prepare for debate.

Jane Hutt AC: Well, I’m very happy to provide the leader of UKIP, Neil Hamilton, the clarification of how we do manage this, how we have managed this in this Senedd, and to offer you every courtesy, as I do to all business managers. Hard copies of our oral statements are circulated to party business managers through their offices, as close to 1 o’clock on Plenary days as possible—I think business managers will recognise that—and they, obviously, have to be subject to ministerial clearance. And it is for individual business managers to pass those copies of the statements to the relevant spokespeople within their parties. So, in accordance with that, I know the hard copies were passed to Mark Reckless, in line with that established and long-standing practice. But, of course, then electronic copies of the oral statements are e-mailed to all Members, once the Minister has started to deliver them. I hope that that, again, will progress as customary practice.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank the leader of the house for her statement. The Government in the fourth Assembly welcomed the conclusions and recommendations of the Welsh Co-operative and Mutuals Commission, chaired by Andrew Davies. Will the Government bring forward a statement outlining what steps it will take in the fifth Assembly to take those recommendations forward?

Jane Hutt AC: Well, I know Jeremy Miles’s interest in the work of the Welsh Co-operative and Mutuals Commission, of course chaired by Professor Andrew Davies, a former Member of this Senedd. It reconvened last year, in February of last year, to take stock of how the recommendations are being implemented. All Ministers then, obviously, had to respond. They reported on their findings earlier this year—in February of this year. There has been progress in those 18 months, since the publication of the first report. It is crucially important to ensure that we see how new co-operative ways of working and doing business are becoming the norm, not the exception. Perhaps a couple of examples: the publication of the alternative delivery models action plan—that came out of the review undertaken by Keith Edwards, ‘Is the Feeling Mutual? New Ways of Designing and Delivering Public Services in Wales’—and also a new support facility, Social Business Wales. Now, interestingly, as far as Social Business Wales is concerned, that was a European regional development fund project. We provided funding towards this £11 million European Union-funded project, and that’s going to, of course, support EU-funded Social Business Wales enterprises and co-operatives.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Could I raise two matters with you, leader of the house? The first is: could we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for local government on the obligation that he believes local authorities have to maintain council roads? It seems, across the whole of the south Wales region, councils seem to have given up filling in potholes and maintaining the surfaces of the public highway. And the amount of constituents I have raising this issue—and I can see certain Members sniggering at this, but, actually, for most Members it’s quite an important issue, and for a lot of constituents, who suffer the blight of potholes and dangerous surfaces, it’s most probably one of their biggest priorities when they come to see their elected Members. I’d be grateful—where there is an obligation placed on the local authority to maintain those surfaces, what is the expectation of the Welsh Government in them fulfilling that obligation, and, indeed, when the Minister makes money available to local authorities, does he make sure—and categorically make sure—to those local authorities that they have a duty to maintain the fabric of the highway in their respective areas?The second point I’d like to make is to add voice to the concerns already raised about the bovine TB strategy—and I do declare an interest as a livestock farmer—that the Welsh Government do have. Yes, there are many controls in place at the moment, but one of the central planks of the strategy was the vaccination policy—and we can argue the merits of that strategy, but, obviously, that was what was put in place by the previous Government, and I presume it is the policy of the current Government to maintain that—and it is a fact that the vaccine supply has ceased to come forward now. So, one of the central planks of the Government’s strategy to eradicate bovine TB here in Wales has been removed, and it is critical for livestock farmers to understand exactly how the new Government will come forward with a comprehensive strategy that is joined-up and isn’t just mere window-dressing. Ultimately, in many parts of Wales, this terrible disease is driving many businesses out of existence by the excessive costs that they have to face and the emotional trauma that they go through when the blight of bovine TB visits that particular business.

Jane Hutt AC: Andrew R.T. Davies, I completely understand the concerns that constituents and residents have about the state of their roads and their local roads. We know that that’s an issue that’s raised with all of us as Assembly Members. I’m very proud of the fact that it’s a Welsh Labour Government that worked with local government to develop the local government borrowing initiative, which enabled us to actually then support and assist the borrowing of local authorities, which we didn’t have and they have got, to undertake a comprehensive investment in improving road structure across the whole of Wales, involving all of our 22 local authorities. Of course, that meant thousands of construction jobs and demonstrably better environments, particularly in some of our more deprived communities. Now, of course, we would like to continue with those kinds of initiatives if we, of course, had a better financial settlement from the UK Government, under your party’s leadership, because these are key issues, which local government, alongside the Welsh Government, want to tackle.I have responded earlier to the questions about our Government’s commitment to the eradication of bovine TB. Of course, this is one of the top priorities of the Cabinet Secretary.

Julie Morgan AC: Following the massacre at Orlando and the vigil outside the Senedd last night, would the business Secretary consider tabling a debate to give the opportunity for Members to highlight areas of policy where further progress could be made in ensuring that discrimination suffered by members of the LGBT community could be tackled? At the vigil last night—and I know the Minister was there—speakers were highlighting issues of concern in Wales, and that included hate crime, homophobic bullying, which we have discussed in this Chamber, I know, on a number of occasions, and inequalities in giving blood. In light of the dreadful experiences in Orlando, would she agree that we should assess our performance in Wales in tackling discrimination and promoting equality? Perhaps having a debate in the Chamber would give us all an opportunity to share those views.

Jane Hutt AC: I thank Julie Morgan for raising that again, following Simon Thomas’s questions to the business statement earlier on, and, again, how important it was that we were there—members of the Government as well as Assembly Members—to listen to those powerful messages and to hear from those who have been affected by that hate crime, and also to see a very good article in the ‘Western Mail’ today by Andrew White: stand together against hate and look to a brighter future. Also, can I say how Jeremy Miles, Hannah Blythyn and Adam Price spoke so powerfully yesterday at the vigil and put on the record how you have made that stand and for us to be held to account for how we can then take this forward in terms of tackling discrimination and barriers to the equality of LGBT people in Wales. Of course, as I’ve said, it is about us working closely together. Also, I think it’s about activities in schools, as well as workplaces, the community working along with our public services in tackling hate crime.

And finally, Nick Ramsay.

Nick Ramsay AC: Diolch. Leader of the house, I wonder if I could ask you for an update from the new Cabinet Secretary for infrastructure and transport on the development of the south Wales metro scheme. Members of the previous Assembly will remember that I was most concerned when the town of Monmouth dropped off some of the south Wales metro maps, reappeared on others and dropped off subsequent maps. So, I’d be grateful for an update on where we are with making sure that the south Wales metro does reach all areas of the south Wales network it is supposed to, including some of the more far-flung rural areas, not just the urban areas.Secondly, could we have an updated statement from the Cabinet Secretary for local government and finance on where we are with the devolution of taxation and specifically the development of a Welsh treasury function and Welsh Revenue Authority? In your previous role, you were heavily involved in this, leader of the house. I know you’ve handed the reins on now to the Member for Cardiff West. I think it’s very important, with time pressing on, that we make sure that we are moving towards the structures that we need when the devolution of certain taxes happens, so that this Welsh Assembly and Welsh Government is able to hit the ground running at that point in time. Time is pressing on and I think we do need to know where we are with the development of those functions.

Jane Hutt AC: I thank Nick Ramsay very much for those questions. Of course, he’s been a strong advocate for his constituency of Monmouthshire and Monmouth in recognising the importance, particularly to Monmouthshire, of the metro. You’ve raised this on many occasions and we’ve had updates or statements to the Assembly, and of course in due course the Minister for economy and infrastructure will want to come to the Chamber and, of course, as we then move into the committees that we’re establishing, there will be further opportunities, and indeed tomorrow, of course, questions to the Cabinet Secretary, which would be very appropriate.On your second question, of course, my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government is also hitting the ground running in terms of moving forward, making good progress with the preparation of the introduction of devolved taxes. We’ve had Royal Assent for the Tax Collection and Management (Wales) Act 2016, which I was very glad to take forward, with further legislation on land transaction and landfill disposals taxes due to be introduced later in this year. But also crucially important, Nick Ramsay, are the talks that are under way with the UK Government, seeking agreement on the fiscal framework underpinning our future funding arrangements.

Thank you, Minister.

4. 3. Statement: Deemed Consent for Organ Donation—the First Six Months

The next item is the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport on deemed consent for organ donation—the first six months. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Vaughan Gething.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am grateful for the opportunity to provide Members with an update six months on from the introduction of the Human Transplantation (Wales) Act 2013 and the introduction of deemed consent for deceased organ donation in Wales. This fully came into force on 1 December 2015. Members will know that people aged 18 and over who have lived in Wales for more than 12 months and who die in Wales are now regarded as being willing to donate their organs unless they have expressly said they do not wish to do so.The path to organ donation is a complex one, but consent is the stage at which most donations are lost and I am extremely proud that Wales now leads the way as the first nation in the UK to move to a soft opt-out system of consent. I fully expect that the new system will create a step change in consent for organ donation in Wales and early indications are that that is the case. In line with many other European countries with similar systems, this law was introduced to address the chronic shortage of organs for transplant that we face in Wales. I am sure we’ve all heard heart-breaking stories about people on organ waiting lists. However, based on international evidence, we anticipate that the new system will increase organ donation by around 25 per cent, or an additional 45 organs per year. In preparation for the change in the organ donation consent system, a great deal of work was undertaken to inform and engage the public. In the two years prior to full implementation, we undertook the largest and most wide-ranging public health information campaign in the history of devolution to explain these changes. Now, regular information has been collected on public awareness and the understanding of the organ donation law to monitor the effectiveness of that campaign. The latest survey in February 2016 showed that 74 per cent of the Welsh public could describe the changes unprompted, compared with 53 per cent in 2012. Now, this is an unprecedented level of understanding for something that was considered by some as being complicated. That 21 percentage point difference highlights a highly effective campaign, and I’d like to express my heartfelt thanks to the people of Wales for not only embracing this ground-breaking legislation but for also taking the time to consider, to discuss and to register their decision about organ donation.As of 28 May 2016, just over 167,000 people in Wales, or roughly 5 per cent of the population, are registered on the NHS organ donor register to opt out. That’s far less than was anticipated in June last year, when a survey showed that 14 per cent of Welsh residents would opt out. It’s really important that people who do want to positively opt out of the system have the opportunity to do so. But, in addition, there are now over 1.1 million people in Wales, over 35 per cent of the population, who are now positively registered to opt in to organ donation.I’d like to thank the numerous stakeholder organisations for their unstinting support. I’d especially like to thank all the patients and families who helped with our public information campaign by generously sharing their own experiences, their moving experiences, to personalise the campaign. None of this would have been possible without the hard work and support of a very large number of people across Wales and beyond. The redevelopment of the organ donor register was a key part of the work needed to provide the means to record an opt-out decision. That work was carried out with NHS Blood and Transplant and the other UK nations, and it was delivered six months before the law came into force. This allowed people enough time to record their decision. Everyone in the UK is now able to record their organ donation decision, whatever that might be. This has only been possible by the support provided by people across this Chamber in the development and implementation of the Act. There will continue to be a need to maintain an understanding of the new system and the organ donation choices that people have in Wales: opt out, opt in or to do nothing. The communication plan for the coming year will focus on promoting conversations between families and loved ones on their organ donation decisions, whilst also encouraging people to register their decision on the organ donor register. Although an increase in awareness levels is a measure of success, the real indication that that our legislation has delivered the required outcome will be an increase in donors, resulting in more patients and families benefiting from transplantation. Results for the first six months of the new legislation being in place, from 1 December last year to 31 May this year, showed 18 cases where consent was deemed in Wales. Ten of those proceeded to donation, but there were 42 consenting additional donors in total for that period. For the same period in 2014-15, there were 38 consenting donors, and 31 in 2013-14.If we look solely at the 18 cases where we can identify that consent was deemed, 10 patients proceeded to donate. From those donors, 37 organs were donated and 32 went on to transplantation. In comparison to the figures for the similar period prior to the change in the law for all proceeding donors, these numbers do look very positive indeed. A formal evaluation of the impact of the new law has been commissioned and will be published next year.I am grateful to Members of all parties for their contributions over the last few years in ensuring that Wales has been able to lead the UK in developing a soft opt-out system of consent for organ donation. Wales needed a transformation in donor and family consent, and the implementation of the Human Transplantation (Wales) Act 2013, I believe, has delivered that change. I look forward to hearing Members’ comments and questions.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: As well as taking this first opportunity in the Senedd to congratulate the Cabinet Secretary on his appointment and to thank him for this statement, may I congratulate each and every one who has made it possible for us to reach this point in terms of organ donation in Wales? We will hear from my fellow Member, Dr Dai Lloyd, in a few moments, as I know that he has a few questions to ask. But I would like to pay tribute to him and thank him for introducing the proposal to change the legislation back in 2007.I hope that the early statistics that have been outlined by the Secretary do demonstrate that this has been a valuable step, and a step that has already saved lives and will continue to do so. It will save many lives here in Wales. But I also hope, as we’ve seen with a number of other pieces of innovative legislation here in the National Assembly for Wales, that it will encourage other democratic bodies in these isles to be just as innovative.May I ask what discussions the Welsh Government has had with other Governments within the UK to urge them to adopt a similar system, particularly bearing in mind, of course, that patients in other parts of these isles could have benefited from our new legislation here in Wales and the positive statistics that have emerged as a result of the introduction of the legislation?May I also ask how many people who could have donated organs during this period had opted out? I note from the statement that far fewer than expected had opted out—some 5 per cent, as compared with the 14 per cent that was estimated in an earlier prediction—but each lost opportunity is an opportunity lost in terms of saving lives. So, what are the statistics there? Given that we need to continue to inform people on the importance of organ donation, what is the Government’s intention as regards continuing with the work of educating people in this area, following this legislative change? In the case of those who hadn’t stated one way or another what their preference was, in how many cases was a decision made to not donate organs on the basis of discussions with family, and not on a medical basis? More generally, along with most people in this Chamber today, this has been a debate that has raised very complex moral questions over the past few years, but, as I say, it’s the outcomes that matter at the end of the day, and it’s good to be able to look back at a successful start to this new piece of legislation.

Vaughan Gething AC: I thank the Member for his comments. In particular, I acknowledge the work of, as I said, a range of people in the Chamber, including Dai Lloyd. In the interim, when he left us for a brief period of time, we actually passed the legislation that we’re now debating and discussing today. To start, I think there were three particular points and questions that you made for me to answer. The first was about other Parliaments and other parts of the UK. I actually attended the board meeting of NHS Blood and Transplant before the election, in Cardiff. It was interesting, as you could see very real interest in the system that we have here in Wales and the impact that it is having. So, there is very real interest right across the NHS family in the United Kingdom about the amount of difference that this legislation will be making. I can’t speak for other Parliaments as to whether they plan to follow our legislation, but I do know there’s a very real interest in it. Personally, I’d be surprised if, in 10 years’ time, we don’t see similar pieces of legislation in other parts of the United Kingdom, because, if it makes the difference we want it to, and we think it has done already in the first six months, then you would have thought that people across parties, in other parts of the UK, would equally want to see extra dozens of lives saved every year, because the challenge of having enough donors available to match people waiting on the organ donor waiting list is not just a problem here in Wales. In terms of those people who have opted out but might otherwise have been donors, I’m not actually aware that we do collect that particular information—I will check, though. Part of the reason is, of course, that there are precise circumstances under which people can be donors for organ transplantation, and I’m not aware that we can assume that someone could be a donor if it were not for the fact that they had opted out. But, I will check that and the particular point you also raised about the number of people where donation does not proceed because of objections from the family. I made the point earlier in interviews today about this that, even for people who have positively opted in and are on the register, it is still possible that transplantation won’t proceed because of the conversation with the family around the time of donation. Now, that’s something that some people are very frustrated by, but we do have to think about the impact on people who are here, not just the person who wishes for donation to take place. The final point that I want to address is: you mentioned those people who are sceptical and those people who were not positive about the change being made—a range of people from different communities and a number of faiths had concerns about the change to a deemed-consent system One of the things I’m really pleased about is the work that we did specifically with a range of different groups, including religious and faith communities, to look at what the changes meant, and, actually, we’ve seen a different sort of attitude. People are more relaxed. They are happier that some of the concerns they had about how the system might work have not been borne out, and I think that’s part of the reason why we’ve not seen quite as many people positively opting out, to register that they don’t want to take part in the donation system. But, it is something where, after six months, after a year, and further on, we need to review the impact and understand whether we’re making the difference we want to or whether we could still do more.

Angela Burns AC: First of all, may I start off by welcoming you to your position? I hope we have the opportunity to work well together to try to improve health services within Wales. I’m very grateful for this statement. For those of you who were here in the last Assembly, you will remember that I very clearly worked very hard on this as an individual Member and I leant the Government my vote, and I’m very pleased to see, after six months—because I said I’d keep a watching brief over the next few years—that things are going so well. There are a couple of areas, though, where I would like some questions, and I would like to make the point that I speak on my own behalf because, of course, the Welsh Conservatives had a free vote on this matter.Minister, have you had any additional thought as to promoting this with your colleague, the education Secretary, in terms of getting the message through to young people in particular? I conducted a very unscientific piece of research at the weekend when I saw this was coming up, when I asked representatives from one school in Carmarthenshire—a secondary school—two in Pembrokeshire and two in the Vale of Glamorgan what they knew about organ donation, and there were very, very lukewarm and woolly replies. Now, the previous Minister gave a commitment that our communication plan already has new funds set out in it to make a special effort to ensure that young people have the information that they need, and, of course, schoolchildren, those who are coming up to leaving secondary school and those at higher education colleges are those who are about to become 18 and will then be able to opt in or out. So, I’d like to know what you’re going to do to really try and ramp up that communication programme, do you have funds set aside, and if you could give us an indication of how much those funds might be. I’d like to just drill down very slightly into the 18 people who hadn’t made a preference either way. You said that 10 of them went on to donate and, obviously, eight didn’t, and I wondered if there’d been much qualitative research undertaken as to the reasons that those who didn’t go on to donate might not have. It could have been just that they didn’t have a match and there was no-one who wanted their particular organs, but it would be very interesting to see if there are any trends there as to perhaps age groups or background as to why that message hadn’t got through to them. I also would like to know if you’ve done or intend to do any qualitative research on those people whose families who did agree to allow organ donation to go ahead because, of course, one of the things that we talked about a lot last time was ensuring that there was proper training in place for the doctors and nurses who are involved in the organ donation area, and it’s about lessons learned. Are we handling those people effectively, kindly, compassionately? They’re at a time of great personal stress, and that’s why I just want to pick you up on one comment you made, which gave me a slight shadow of unease, when you said that there is a frustration that some people said ‘no’ and didn’t let their organs go ahead. We should accept that frustration as part of the freedoms that we give people, and I wouldn’t like that ever to be translated to a person at the front line into any pressure on a family. At the end of the day, it’s the family’s right. We’ve enshrined that in this piece of legislation, that if there isn’t presumed consent, that the discussion happens, that there is the ability for them not to proceed. And we shouldn’t show a flicker of concern over that, because that’s what we said and that’s what we must adhere to. Finally, Minister, could you set out the budget that’s in place to promote organ donation and outline whether there’s scope for further investment, if research proves that we need it to move this issue forward? Thank you.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for that series of questions. I’ll just deal first with the point that I think was about a misunderstanding, rather than anything else, because I was actually referring to the role of the family in not supporting donation, but of someone who’s actually made a decision to go on to the register to opt in. That still happens, but that’s part of what we need to do. It’s part of the sensitivity of the medical professionals and, in particular, in the scrutiny phase of this and afterwards, the record of the role of the specialist nurse, both being positive in explaining choice and what it means for people at that time, whether they opt in or opt out, whether they consent to donation proceeding and also, in particular, those who do say ‘yes’, because that’s been one of the things that’s been most affecting through this process is meeting families and loved ones of people who have gone on to be donors. So many of them have a positive story to tell about a death not being in vain, and understanding that there are other people who have continued with their lives because of the choice that’s been made. And that’s absolutely been very genuinely, very motivational, hearing that. In terms of your broader points about research on impact and a review, we have, of course, committed to reviewing the impact of the legislation. I’m sure there will be a number of people wishing to undertake their own research on the impact of the law, but the Government has committed to review the impact of the legislation. We won’t be doing that right now because this is an update statement rather than a formal review of where we are in the first six months. We’re going to spend approximately £200,000 over the course of this next year on promoting what’s taken place, that information campaign, but you’ll be aware funding will continue into the next year because the Assembly committed to spending about £7.5 million over 10 years when we passed this legislation.I do want to start off by recognising what Angela Burns said at the start of her contribution, and not just thank you—I should say it to Rhun as well—but say congratulations both to yourself and Rhun ap Iorwerth on your changes in role, and welcome to a significantly interesting portfolio where nearly half the Government’s money is spent. I do recognise that on this particular issue, not only did the Welsh Conservatives have a free vote, but I recognise very well that you said you were a sceptic, and it was a leap of faith to support the legislation coming into place. That’s why it is important that we’re open and transparent about the impact that the legislation is having and, equally, if we understand there’s more that we could or should do to improve the system. And that isn’t just about increasing the number of donors, but actually understanding the impact on families of any decision to proceed with donation.I’ll deal with two final points that occurred in your comments and questions. The first was about ensuring that awareness continues, in particular for younger people. We’re already planning to ensure that people who are approaching their eighteenth birthday have what’s been called—I’m not sure if this is the right terminology—‘a rising 18s letter’. So, people who are approaching their eighteenth birthdays receive formal communication that tells them, reminds them, about the new system and what their choices are and it encourages them to talk to their loved ones, to have the conversation with people around them about what they would like to see happen. Equally, for the future, we’re looking at GP registration. It isn’t ready yet, but at some point we should be able to do something when people register with their GPs, so people can register their choice at that point as well. The more opportunities we give people, the easier we make it for people to record what their choice is—to opt in, to opt out or to do nothing—I think the better it is for all of us. That’s part of the success this legislation needs to have, to see the impact we want it to have, when more and more lives are saved each year.

Caroline Jones AC: I too would like to offer my congratulations on your appointment, Cabinet Secretary, and thank you for your statement. It is indeed good news that deemed consent created 10 more donors who contributed to half of the transplants in the last six months. Organ donation is the greatest act of generosity and compassion a person can undertake. Sadly, we still have over 200 people waiting for a life-saving transplant in Wales, and yet only 35 per cent of people in Wales have opted in to the organ donation register. Deemed consent is a great leap forward and 32 organs have been transplanted that might not have been if the system was not in place. But, we all have a duty to encourage people to register as donors. In 43 per cent of cases where organ donation is possible, families say ‘no’ to donation, because they don’t know whether their loved one wanted to be a donor. Let’s take the burden off our grieving families and register as organ donors. When someone registers as a donor, their wishes, whether their family agrees or not, should be respected and not overridden. Deemed consent only applies if you die in Wales. Let’s ensure that we can save lives after our deaths elsewhere in the UK by opting in to the organ donation register.Cabinet Secretary, what is the Welsh Government doing to encourage more people to register as donors? What about parental guidance to young people embarking on leaving school? What is the Government doing to improve education about organ donation? A lot of objections to organ donation are on religious grounds. Is the Welsh Government working with religious groups to help educate people about the beliefs of becoming an organ donor? It is unfortunate that if a potential donor’s family cannot be contacted, consent for donation cannot be deemed. What consideration has the Government given to adding emergency contact details to a patient’s medical records?Cabinet Secretary, only 157,000 people have opted out from the organ donation register. Let’s use the next six months to persuade the remainder of the Welsh public that it is better if they give their express consent to organ donation and make their wishes known to their loved ones than to rely on deemed consent alone. Thank you.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the comments from the UKIP health spokesperson and welcome to your own role. I’m pleased to hear your very clear support for the legislation and the outcomes that we wish to achieve. A part of what we’re doing today, and we’ll be doing throughout the rest of this year and the rest of the time we have a communication campaign, is to encourage people to make choices—whether that choice is to opt out or to opt in or to agree to do nothing and to potentially allow their consent to be deemed. I’ve dealt with a range of the points that I think you’ve raised about what we’re doing to try and promote a different range of people to have a conversation with their loved ones to make sure that their choices are known to the people they leave behind in particular. And in response to Angela Burns and Rhun ap Iorwerth, I’ve mentioned a number of things that we are already looking to do.On the two particular points I think I should probably respond on, one is about the emergency contact for a family or loved one. Because of the particular circumstances in which people are able to be organ donors, it’s likely that a family member or loved one will be there with them. Where that isn’t the case, they still need to check that organ donation is possible, because you need to know enough about their medical history to understand whether their organs could in fact be made available for donation. So, there are practical points about that.Just on your point about faith communities in particular, which I mentioned earlier, just to confirm, we employed a specialist consultancy called Cognition, which have experience of dealing with a range of different communities, and they’ve actually brought together people of different faith backgrounds to understand the concerns they had and how they’ve been able to get over those. So, I think people are more informed now, and that’s been part of the success of the legislation to date. I actually attended a workshop with a range of different people—not because of my particular role in Government, but also significantly because of my own constituency and the diversity that exists—with different faith groups to understand what their concerns were, where they’d moved to an understanding of the system that we have available and the choices that they can make. Because, actually, a range of people who are leaders in faith communities have the potential to influence people, to look at what we’re doing and to make their choice—whether it’s to opt in, opt out or do nothing.So, I’m pleased with where we are now, six months in of the legislation going active, and I look forward to giving further updates to Members on where we have got to and where we still want to get to in the years and months to come.

Dai Lloyd AC: I thank the Cabinet Secretary for health for his statement and also for his kind words. Naturally, this is an example of the commendable use of legislation in this place, and it is worth noting that, without the Assembly, this Act would not exist. I know that that’s stating the obvious to some extent, but many people ask, ‘What has the Assembly ever done for us?’ Well, here we have quite a commendable example of legislation that changes lives, that saves lives and which transforms other lives. Would you agree with me that one of the main aspects of this legislation is that it sets a precedent in the discussion between the doctor or nurse and the family in these tragic circumstances, when somebody who they love deeply has died, and they have to have the conversation about what happens to the organs? I’ve been in that position myself. If you didn’t have the background of the legislation, that is, that the will of the country states that the expectation is that you will donate your organs—. Previously, prior to the legislation, there was no such expectation and, as a doctor, you could sound extremely hard-hearted in those extremely poignant moments when you also have to ask permission for somebody’s organs who, two hours previously, was completely healthy. That’s the great difference. International surveys have demonstrated that, in the previous situation in this country, if I, as a doctor, asked for that permission in that most difficult of situations, 40 per cent of families refused permission. But, in other countries that have already changed, where that discussion has taken place, and with the background that there is an expectation and that that is the will of the country, only 15 per cent of families now refuse consent. Those are the kinds of figures that we would expect to see now. It’s also important to note that, when one person dies and consents to give their organs, you actually transform the lives of seven other people, bearing in mind that we’ve all got two kidneys, one liver, one pancreas, a heart, lungs and two corneas. All you need to do is the maths. So, I’m extremely pleased to see the success of this legislation. I could anticipate it happening over the years when we’ve had very intense and serious discussion in this place and outwith this place. I’m very pleased to see those figures confirming that. I would emphasise and also push you to persuade other Governments within these isles to follow the same path. Over the years, I have had discussions with people in the Scottish Parliament and in Northern Ireland and there are organisations there that are also following the way that we have taken here. But England is the big problem—well, in this context, as in a number of other contexts, obviously. But I would encourage you to try to persuade the Government in London to try and adopt similar legislation. Thank you.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the comments and questions, Dai Lloyd. I’m more than happy, as I said in response to Rhun ap Iorwerth, to continue the conversation with other Parliaments and other parts of the NHS family across the UK. As I say, I know they are actively considering and interested in the progress of our legislation and the practical impact on the numbers of people going on to be organ donors.I think this is a really good example of the creative use of our powers in this place for a real purpose—a practical and improved difference for citizens in Wales. And I think it is a genuine cross-party cause for recognition about how we could do things in the future as well. In particular, your point that each donor helps more than one person: we’ve seen 10 people proceeding to donation, 32 extra transplants taken, in the first six months through deemed consent. That’s a significant number of people who are being helped by the progress of this legislation and I hope to see further improvement on that in the future too. But I would say that, even at this point, if we see that maintained in the future, then the legislation will have been well worth it—having many, many people in years to come who can say that their life has been improved or saved because of the choice that we’ve made to create this legislation.I’ll deal with your final point about the nature of the conversation. You’re absolutely right about the fact that we’ve had the legislation passed, so it changes the nature of the conversation and the approach that people take in having a conversation at an incredibly difficult time for individuals in saying goodbye to a loved one and understanding what might then happen about the gift of life to other people as well. Having the conversation start from a positive point about donation being, if you like, the default option to opt for, was something that came through in the consultation during the course of the Bill and has been reinforced in engagement that we’ve had with people throughout the last couple of years as well. So, I think there’s good reason to be optimistic about that, but equally good reason to review whether that is still the case in practice, about the way that different people outside this place—faith and voluntary communities—and, in particular, linking to people actually undertaking those conversations, as to whether what we think we’re seeing in the first six months is being maintained or whether there is more that we can do to improve the situation further.

And, finally, Mohammad Asghar.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Thank you very much, madam Presiding Officer. Minister, I congratulate you on your new post. I will say it’s a very noble job to give organ donation. An independent report by the organ donation taskforce found that people of Asian and Afro-Caribbean origin make up 23 per cent of the kidney waiting list, but only 3 per cent of those donors come from these communities. Studies also show that cultural issues are important influencing factors when making a decision about organ donation. A recent study in Birmingham found that 60 per cent of Muslims said that organ donation is against their faith. I can assure you, Minister, that that is not the case. Engaging and educating our Muslim communities in Wales with relevant Muslim organisations is the answer. What steps are you going to take? I’m quite voluntarily trying to help you, if possible, to go to all mosques in this country to make sure that Muslims know the benefit of this noble object.Written leaflets are not good enough—they have different languages in Muslim communities, more than half a dozen. And to make sure that they understand the language and the objective of this Government to make sure that our noble job is achieved in this country and we set an example—I’m sure you’re doing a wonderful job, but there’s still a long way to go for that. Thank you very much.

Vaughan Gething AC: I thank Mohammad Asghar for his particular points in an area of real challenge for us. I’m particularly grateful that you’ve highlighted the fact that, of people on the waiting list, there is a significantly higher than expected number, certainly out of proportion with the general population, of people from black and Asian origin communities, and yet, of the people who are registered on the organ donation list, there’s a significantly lesser amount than in the population as well. So, we do have a real challenge and some of it is cultural, you’re right. I also know that this isn’t religious; there’s no religious bar to being a donor. But there is the challenge of some of the cultural norms that have built up and how we get around those. That’s why the work of cognition in supporting that conversation has been so important.There’s no point in pretending that that work is done and everything is fine now. It needs to be a continued conversation. We want to change the culture and the way in which people have that conversation. It’s also why personal stories have been so important and so powerful. Understanding people in the communities that you live in, seeing someone waiting on the list, and then seeing someone and their family who’ve gone through the process of someone in their family passing away but becoming an organ donor, are really powerful motivators to challenge the way people feel about their choices, and, in many ways, the most persuasive way. So, I do recognise there’s more to do in this area. There’s no lack of complacency, but what I would say is we’ve already undertaken steps, and not just with people in the Muslim community; there is a range of black and Asian-origin communities in the Christian faith, as well as the Hindu community and the Sikhs as well, that we’ve had conversations with, too—so, a wide range of faiths to engage here as well, but also a wide range of languages. We have made sure that a range of information is available in a different number of community languages. That doesn’t mean to say that all is perfect or the engagement we have with a different range of communities cannot be improved, and I look forward to us understanding what more we can do to achieve exactly that, because I don’t think there’s any difference between parties on this point.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

5. 4. Statement: Building on our Recycling Success for a Circular Economy

The next item is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs on building on our recycling success for a circular economy. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. I want to draw the attention of the Senedd to a real success story for Wales and how we can build on this success for the future. Wales has achieved the highest municipal recycling rate in the United Kingdom and, if it were to report separately, the fourth highest rate in Europe. I would like to pay tribute to my predecessor, Carl Sargeant, for his contribution towards Wales’s achievements in recycling and resource efficiency and also acknowledge the efforts of Welsh local authorities and the Welsh public in this achievement. Wales’s municipal recycling rate reached 59 per cent for the 12 months to the end of December 2015 and 58 per cent in quarter 3 of the full year 2015-16. This is up 5 per cent on the same quarter in 2014-15. In the new compositional analysis of municipal waste, published by the Waste and Resources Action Programme today, it is identified that around a quarter of what is in the black bag waste—residual waste—is food waste, and another quarter is dry recyclables. If we could capture even half of this material, we could comfortably achieve our target of 70 per cent recycling of municipal waste. This demonstrates a great advance in sustainable waste management in Wales. However, its real significance is that waste and resource efficiency offers a gateway into the circular economy.A circular economy is one where materials can be productively used again and again, creating added value and associated multiple benefits. These benefits can help us deliver on many of our well-being goals under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, especially a prosperous Wales, a resilient Wales and a globally responsible Wales. A recent study by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation and WRAP identified potential economic benefits of more than £2 billion each year to the Welsh economy. A further study by WRAP and the Green Alliance predicts that up to 30,000 new jobs can be created in Wales through development of a circular economy. Thousands of Welsh workers are employed in supply chain companies, large and small, involved in collection, transportation, reprocessing and remanufacture of materials throughout Wales. Steel, aluminium, paper, cardboard, glass, plastics, textiles and electronic goods can all be recycled, creating jobs and adding value through the circular economy.We need to make sure as large a quantity of materials as possible is reused within the Welsh circular economy. These materials need to be of high quality to be attractive to local reprocessing companies and command the best prices. In this way, local authorities and householders will be contributing to better environmental and economic outcomes as well as higher recycling. It is important for Welsh householders to know where the materials collected from them are recycled. A recent report into the end destinations of materials collected for recycling by Welsh local authorities showed less than half, by weight, is recycled in Wales. There is enormous potential to boost the Welsh economy and the number of jobs by reprocessing more of these materials here in Wales.Therefore, it is my intention as Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs to drive forward policies towards delivering a circular economy in Wales. This will be one of my key priorities and aligns with our work in response to the circular economy package being proposed by the European Commission.I will explore all necessary mechanisms, including legislation, to require a high content of recycled materials in products procured by the Welsh public sector. I will also explore the use of extended producer responsibility to ensure that producers and retailers share more evenly the burdens of managing waste from households. I will work with Welsh local authorities and the private sector to explore how we achieve these goals. The Welsh Government has recently published the results of a review of the collections blueprint, which confirms the validity of the approach. A revised edition of the blueprint is currently in preparation, and we shall consult on this later this year.We need to consider the potential benefits of more consistent waste collection services to deliver higher quality feedstock at a lower cost of collection. The success that we have seen is largely due to the clarity and direction of the national waste strategy ‘Towards Zero Waste’ and its supporting sector plans. The municipal sector plan and its collections blueprint provide guidance to local authorities about how they can improve financial, environmental and economic outcomes. I want to continue to work closely with local authorities, the Welsh Local Government Association and other stakeholders in the sector, including business and the third sector, to ensure progress towards our targets is maintained and we develop and deliver effective policies to achieve our wider objectives in this area.We are making steady progress towards our overall goal of becoming a zero-waste nation by 2050. We stated in our manifesto that we want a carbon-neutral Welsh Government by 2020. The goals are ambitious but achievable and mean, as a nation, we will need to up our game on the broader waste management agenda, not just recycling, to further cut emissions and promote resource efficiency all along the supply chain. The Welsh Government is committed to a review of the 2010 waste strategy ‘Towards Zero Waste’. We published an interim progress report last year and are currently preparing discussion papers to kick off the debate about what the new strategy should embrace. I shall be bringing these forward to the Senedd and for wider public consultation by the end of this year.Wales has a proud record on municipal recycling, and the targets that are in place will ensure Wales continues to progress towards having the highest municipal recycling rate in Europe. This will bring extra economic activity, more jobs and better carbon reductions. We must maintain progress and ensure we take every opportunity to contribute towards the goals set out in the well-being of future generations Act. The next few years are going to be very exciting in the field of municipal recycling and resource efficiency, and I’m pleased to have the opportunity to set out this agenda to you today. Thank you.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Thank you very much. I call Simon Thomas.

Simon Thomas AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I welcome the new Secretary to her role and yourself to the Deputy Presiding Officer’s role? I think it’s the first time you’ve been in the Chair, as well. [Assembly Members: ‘Hear, hear.’]I’d like to thank the Secretary for her statement. I’d like to say there was an awful lot of rubbish in it, but I mean that in the best possible, positive way. [Laughter.] I’ll stick with the bad jokes after that one.The one thing I did think about the way we describe this very positive story for Wales, however, is perhaps we need to be a little more proactive in the way we do it. I think ‘circular economy’ doesn’t do it on the doorstep for me. I think when you talk about a zero-waste strategy, people understand that, and I think when you talk about the jobs that can come from reusing our core materials that we use in our economy, I think people understand that. ‘Circular economy’ leaves me cold, so I hope the Government can come up with more exciting ways of describing what is a good news story for the Government and for Wales as a nation. The questions I’d like to ask the Secretary at this stage are about how we are going to make further progress towards that target. Now, your statement today did focus on recycling, and I understand why, but, within a zero-waste strategy, of course, reduction and reuse are also key methods of achieving that, and, particularly in the low-carbon or zero-carbon aims that you have as a Government, reduction and reuse must come before even recycling. So, I’d like to hear a little more about what your thoughts are on how you’re going to use those tools to further your aims and, in that context, are you giving particular focus and consideration to, for example, a deposit-return scheme for plastic bottles in Wales? I took part in a beach clean fairly recently in Llansteffan; it was very noticeable that just about every second piece of item we picked up from the beach was a top of a plastic drink bottle—a sports cap. I think a way that we can encourage the reuse of such materials in Wales is something that I’d like to see this Government consider, and certainly, Plaid Cymru will be advocating. Are there things, as we’re looking towards the summer, and a lot of festivals—I’ve been to one or two already; looking forward to more—and agricultural shows and events and so forth, where we can build in reuse and recycling into these? Because there’s an awful lot of food waste, and an awful lot of plastic waste that’s created by our outdoor events. They are very important for our communities, but it would be good to have the zero-waste strategy put in the centre of those public events as well.You said in the statement—it was quite interesting, I think—that it is important that people in Wales understand what’s happening to their waste. I do think that’s important; I get a lot of myths on the doorstep, quite literally, where people say that they put out the compost and, in fact, the compost is just incinerated somewhere; it doesn’t actually end up in a compost. I think we need to understand and explain this. Can you say, therefore, how you’re going to increase the amount of actual recycling that takes place here in Wales, the jobs here in Wales and the economy here in Wales? You mentioned in the statement that it’s about half of our recycling that actually takes place in our country. I think we should increase that, and I’d like the Government to have a specific target within its waste strategy to increase that. The second element I’d like to ask you about is your view, or the Government’s view, on incineration. What place, if any, does incineration of waste have within the zero-waste strategy? My mind is that it should have no strategic role at all, and that you should look for a moratorium on incineration of waste. There are certain types of waste, of course, that have to be incinerated, like surgical waste and hospital waste, but as a waste reduction strategy, and waste recycling strategy, incineration should have no part. I think we’ve made some false steps in the past by encouraging local and regional solutions to waste strategy that haven’t addressed our national priorities. I hope that the lessons of the past have been learnt and you will bear down on any local authority or consortium that starts to use incineration as a way of dealing with this extremely important area, because, as your statement sets out, recycling and reusing these materials does in fact mean a better deal for our communities and our economy. The final point I wanted to raise with you is one around commercial recycling. I think we’re all still very frustrated that, as we do our best in our own homes to compost, whether it’s in the garden or in the bins, whether we recycle and put cardboard to one side, put bottles to one side or put plastic to one side, when we try and purchase goods—and sometimes we do have to have new goods—we find them over-packaged and over-delivered in that way. It seems, really, that there is a limited stepping up to the plate by the commercial sector here. What elements of our success is down to success within the commercial sector, and what are you doing to increase the reduction, first of all, and very importantly, within the commercial sector, of unnecessary packaging and waste? I think it’s a bit unfair, in many cases, to put a burden on domestic ratepayers and domestic households, when we see so clearly that many companies, operating of course outside Wales as well, are not taking account of our message here of reduction and reuse. It is a good success story that Wales is the fourth highest rate in Europe. It’s an excellent success story that we recycle more than the rest of the United Kingdom. We once did better on renewable energy as well and we fell behind. I hope we don’t fall behind in this matter, and I hope that in your response today, and in your work as a new Secretary, you will actually achieve your aim of a zero-waste economy in Wales.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I’d like to thank Simon Thomas for his comments and I look forward to him shadowing me; I hope his jokes improve over the coming months. I actually agree with you about the circular economy, because when the title of the statement was put in front of me, I baulked a bit. But I think you’re right; we need something that people very much understand and can grasp hold of. We have made a huge amount of progress, and, as you say, it is a good news story. To be where we are in the UK and in Europe is a real success story. Clearly, we need to do more to get over that 59 per cent that we have to reach our target. And I think there is more that we can do, but it is about ensuring that the public come with us in relation to that. You asked what more we can do, because, obviously, we’ve probably come to a bit of a plateau really, and there is going to have to be further action to go forward. You asked specifically about a deposit recovery scheme, and I know that has been looked at. You may be aware that currently the Scottish Government are doing a great deal of work around this, and we are sort of actively working with the Scottish Government—there’s no point duplicating the work that they’re doing—and we’re waiting for some advice from them. Officials are working very closely together. My early understanding of having such a deposit recovery scheme is that it would be incredibly complicated to introduce. But, certainly, I am looking to have that advice, and I know that, again, my officials have been working with stakeholders on whether we should do that.I thought it was very interesting what you said about cleaning up on a beach, which you are to be commended for, and it was the plastic tops. I remember when I was first elected, back in 2007, not doing a beach scheme—we don’t have any beaches in Wrexham—but, you know, going on a litter pick, where it was carrier bags. And I think the fact now that we don’t see many carrier bags littering is because of the legislation that this place brought forward to reduce the use of those. I think the point you made also about agricultural shows and festivals is very good. Plastic can’t be reused practically. So, I think we need to look at what we can do, going forward.I did mention about the people of Wales knowing what happened to the products that are recycled, and I think there’s a conversation that I need to have with my colleague, the Minister for economy and infrastructure, around this. And, certainly, we need to encourage businesses. In fact, in Ken Skates’s own constituency—I’ve made a visit myself—there is a new company that recycles coat hangers, and there are literally hundreds of thousands of coat hangers going through this. So I think it’s something that we could do, to encourage new businesses like that to come to Wales.I think, in relation to incineration, prevention is obviously the key, but, again, it’s very early days in my portfolio. I need to have a look at that, but, certainly, I think we need to continue to focus on where we have been with that.You asked about commercial waste, and I think you’re quite right—if we’re encouraging households to do it, we should be encouraging businesses. They recognise that recycling saves them money. But I think we also need to look at extending producer responsibility, and making sure that they design products that will last longer, that they think about what happens to the products when they get to end of life, how they can then be recycled or repaired, and thinking about the infrastructure that needs to be in place there.

Jeremy Miles AC: Can I thank the Secretary for her statement—such a positive statement? She referred to the 30,000 potential jobs in this sector. As she may know, Neath Port Talbot, in my area, has secured the second-highest number of jobs in reprocessing under WRAP Cymru’s EU-funded ARID programme, which highlights the practical reality of the job creation potential here. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the types of jobs that may be created, and the skill mix required, in order to be able to take full advantage of the circular economy in all its guises, be it waste collection, recycling, but also remanufacture, reuse and repair?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Well, I haven’t undertaken that piece of work in the first month of the portfolio. But I think you raise a very important point, and there is that prospect of bringing more jobs in. I mentioned how we could be looking at encouraging businesses in the way I’ve mentioned about Ken Skates’s constituency having the coat hanger one. I think it’s really important that we recognise that we’ve made a big decision here in Wales to be a recycling nation, and we need to ensure that when we encourage businesses to come here, we show that one of the reasons that we want to be that recycling nation is to have that economic resilience. So, be assured that, going forward, I will be having those conversations.

Thank you. I call the Conservative spokesperson, David Melding.

David Melding AC: Deputy Presiding Officer, can I add my congratulations to your office? I’m not sure you’d want to recycle anything the last chap did, but I know you will have your own personality in the role, and I do hope you’ll soon forget the odd occasion when we clashed when I sat in that Chair, especially should I heckle rather inadvertently occasionally, having heard some of the contributions of the frontbench.It is also slightly unnerving, when I have to make my first contribution as a spokesperson, in an area I’ve never shadowed before, to do it in an area of rather high achievement for the Government. Can I place on record my congratulations to the Government, and also to the new what we now must call Cabinet Secretary? I do recall that’s what the term was in the first Assembly; so, even that’s been recycled. But I do hope that you will enjoy your role and that you will achieve many of the things that you have set out to achieve in these early days for your portfolio.I think the Welsh Government has shown leadership in this area, and it would be churlish not to acknowledge that. We’re now in a position where we could see further ambition. This pretty much relates to the circular economy, which I think takes us a bit more into the commercial side of things, having noted the pretty good record in terms of municipal waste, even at a European level, let alone on a UK scale. So, I do think we need to concentrate now on how we’re going to use the resources of small and medium-sized enterprises, in particular, who I think need to be at the heart of a strategy that effectively recycles and retains more of the recycled material within Wales. Because, in your admirably candid statement, you do acknowledge that over half of the material currently recycled actually then leaves Wales. So, if we look at that as a resource, which is what I think we need to do, rather than the problem to be exported, then I think it is crucial that we get SMEs more fully involved. To do that, we need not to engulf them in regulation, but we need to give them the tools to see the opportunities and to develop their skills and to see where there can be commercial advantage.So, in that case, I just have one particular thing, really, to follow up, and that is: whilst you’re saying that you’re looking at the way that can be done and that you are drawing up plans for that, I would like to know how ERDF, our European moneys, might be used together with EU Horizon funding, because it seems to me, in improving the skills and key infrastructure in the economy, then those European programmes could be very, very promising and an area where we could really have competitive advantage. In so much of what happens in the Welsh economy, we’re trying to emulate best practice elsewhere, but I suppose the real ambition that you are expressing this afternoon is that we can lead not only at a UK level but at a European one as well. If we achieve that ambition and I’m still in post, then I look forward to be able to acknowledge that and congratulate further success as it occurs.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, David Melding, for your kind words. I only realised just yesterday—because, obviously, I’ve only been here since 2007—that ‘Cabinet Secretary’ was used. So, again, that was a much better joke than Simon Thomas’s. [Laughter.] You are quite right, and it’s very good that you recognise the high achievement of the recycling rates municipally. That’s why I was so candid about the commercial sector. What I want to do is build on the industrial and commercial sector plan that we have within our schemes to ensure that we do work with businesses. You will have heard me say before about the extended producer responsibility, but I think it’s about ensuring that we work with businesses to make sure that their design of products and packaging enables them then to reduce waste, to increase that reuse, to increase their recyclability and increase the recycled content. It’s also about sustainable management of residual waste as well, and we need to be having those conversations with them. You mentioned European funding. Again, I’m due to meet my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government to have those discussions around how we can use European funding—yet another aspect about why we should vote to remain, I believe, next week, to make sure that that European funding is still there, going forward.I think we’ve already offered a great deal of support to local government, for instance. I know that local government were quite cynical about these targets that we set for them in relation to municipal waste. I’m sure that when I do start to have those discussions with businesses I might meet with the same sort of level. So, it’s about not taking success for granted. It’s about all working very hard together to make sure that we improve the services and we are able to reach our target in due course.

Julie Morgan AC: I welcome the Cabinet Secretary to her post and welcome her statement and her commitment to a circular economy. Obviously, she has concentrated on recycling in this statement, and I note that she raises the potential for further recycling from the analysis of the content of the black bags, which shows there is much more there that could be recycled. However, I do think that we should, in conjunction with continuing to pursue what can be recycled, be looking at reuse, and we should be looking at prevention of waste. I know in the previous Assembly we did have quite a bit of discussion here about a deposit-return bottle scheme—I think William Powell raised it at every debate we had—and I note that in your reply to Simon Thomas you said that you are discussing this with the Scottish Minister and seeing what their experiences are in Scotland. Obviously, you would be analysing it closely, but it would be a very direct way of reusing and would prevent an awful lot of the waste that there actually is, when analysis is made of what causes litter, for example. So, I am very pleased that that is being considered. The other point I wanted to raise was the issue of garden waste, because I am always very concerned, particularly in the country, when you see garden waste being put out for collection by local authorities, and I wondered how much emphasis is able to be put on composting and trying to prevent this, which really seems to me quite an unnecessary thing for local authorities to be doing. We should be concentrating on encouraging garden waste to be recycled within the garden itself. I understand it in a town—that is, you can’t do that in a town with people in small gardens or yards or things like that, maybe, but in the country, it just seems to me not a good thing to be doing.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I thank the Member for her questions. You’re right—you heard me say to Simon Thomas that we’ve been very closely working with the Scottish Government, and certainly officials are watching what they do. They’re going to come forward with some advice that I’ll consider certainly before the end of the year, but it is a very complicated process to bring forward a deposit-return scheme from scratch. I think it would be a major undertaking and we’d have to work out whether the costs and benefits were balanced. I think I mentioned that plastic is quite hard to recycle. If you think about it, most drinks bottles now, the glass ones, have been replaced by plastic, and that cannot be used practically. In relation to composting, I think most local authorities carried out campaigns to promote home composting to householders. If you think about it, I think most people would produce too much garden waste to then manage their own compost bins. So, I think people do really value the service that local authorities provide in relation to taking away surplus garden waste, and if that compost then can benefit other gardeners, you can see the process there. I think what I would really want to avoid is people burning their garden waste, because that can often give off very toxic smoke.

Darren Millar AC: Minister, can I ask you with regard to recycling rates in Wales? One of the best-performing local authorities was Conwy, and it has managed to achieve its success in recycling with a current recycling regime with a trolley box that is collected on a weekly basis, with different recyclates that are collected at the kerbside and separated at the kerbside, and then a black bin collection on a fortnightly basis. Now, you may be aware that the local authority is planning to move to a three-week cycle across the local authority area, and is about to conduct a pilot also, which it intends to commence in the summer months, of a four-weekly collection cycle. I’m very concerned about that pilot and the impact that it might have on encouraging positive recycling behaviour amongst the local community. There’s a lot of concern that that might lead to environmental problems from those who don’t engage in recycling in the way that you and I would want them to, and there’s no provision within the proposals to deal with pet waste, which of course can be particularly unpleasant if left festering in black bins for a long time. So, I just wonder, Minister, what guidance you might be able to issue, as the Welsh Government, to ensure that these things are catered for properly, so that if there is a shift to a four-weekly general refuse collection service, that doesn’t have an adverse impact on the wider environment, upon local communities, and indeed on the visitor economy, particularly in a place like Conwy where visitors are essential in giving that particular area an economic boost?

Lesley Griffiths AC: I thank Darren Millar for his question. I was aware Conwy are going to pilot to trial four-weekly collections. I think they’re starting at the end of next month. We, as a Welsh Government, don’t have a policy for monthly collection of non-recyclable rubbish. It really is a matter for local authorities to decide the frequency of their waste collections and what’s best for their community and their local populations. I have no plans to enforce any specific collection frequency arrangements on them.In relation to pet waste, that’s not something that has come across my desk in these early days. But I think you do raise a very important point about pet waste and I’m happy to have a look at that and write to the Member.

I have two more speakers and we’ve got less than a minute to get through them. Can I ask both speakers, then, just for questions on this occasion, please? I’ve got Jenny Rathbone next.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Thank you very much, and welcome, Minister. I’d just like to pay tribute to—you’ve said that an amount of food waste is still appearing in black recycling, which is obviously a major health issue, as well as loved by the gulls—the work that Love Food Hate Waste is doing to divert food from having to go to land waste into being used productively by organisations. I think it’s really important. I just want to ask you about the perverse incentives around weight-based recycling—No. 1—and also what consideration you might give to how we could put levies on the plastic bottles or the can lids that have been mentioned earlier by others as a way of ensuring that we’re not sorting out one problem and creating another. How can we get the polluter to pay—i.e. those who do tip their cans onto the beach? How do we prevent that happening in the first place by maybe having bottles for drinks that have to be returnable as an alternative to that?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Jenny Rathbone. You will have heard me say to previous Members my views on deposit-return schemes, in relation to your last question. In relation to throwing out by weight, a briefing I read was embracing what other European countries have done. I think Austria and Italy and parts of Belgium were areas where they’d had a pay-as-you-throw tax. I actually think that’s quite controversial. Going forward, we would have to consider future models of how we fund local authorities to deliver the high-quality services that we’ve seen. But, certainly, I wouldn’t think pay-as-you-throw would be something that I would want to see here in Wales.I absolutely agree that we know that probably 50 per cent of rubbish thrown into a black bin could be recycled. It’s about ensuring that we find a way of encouraging people to look at what they’re throwing away—to have a look around their house and see what they can throw away, and to make sure they throw the right things away in the right places at the right time. It may be that we need to have a further campaign, for instance, to raise public awareness. I think that’s been very successful previously. But these are all things that I will have to consider to make sure that we do reach that 70 per cent target.

Okay, thank you. Finally, Nathan Gill.

Nathan Gill AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, the aims of the Welsh Government are admirable, but perhaps unrealistic: 70 per cent recycling by 2025 and 100 per cent by 2050. In order to get to the 100 per cent mark, you really must bring the householders of Wales with you. You are working in response to the EU framework directive, which only requires a 65 per cent recycling rate by 2030. This is a classic case of the gold-plating of EU legislation, which Labour complains so much about in Westminster, and, all of a sudden, here we are, we’re getting it in Wales. Now, there’s two main ways to get people to recycle in Wales: we can use the carrot or we can use the stick. I’m afraid that it appears that we are going down the stick route all too often. Many of my constituents in Conwy and, soon to be, Anglesey are being asked to not only sort their own rubbish on behalf of the council but also to make do with a four-weekly bin collection. Now, those of you who suffer from the system that we have on Anglesey know that, when the wind blows, literally the recycled rubbish ends up all the way down the street, and many of the inhabitants of the estate where I live, when it’s windy, don’t even bother putting out the recycled rubbish, because it just ends up everywhere. Is it not draconian to expect people with large families to put their rubbish into a bin that’s exactly the same size as that of somebody who only has one person in their household? Of course, Cardiff is now possibly facing the four-weekly scourge as well. Cabinet Secretary, what carrots can you offer to our residents regarding recycling, as opposed to this being a thorn in the collective side of the Welsh people? And what’s more, why is it not possible for us to—?

That’s two questions and we’re out of time. I’ve been very lenient.

Nathan Gill AC: You’ve been extremely lenient, and thank you ever so much.

Yes, well, don’t push it any further. [Laughter.]Cabinet Secretary.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank Nathan Gill for his question, although I think it was a little bit sour. It was a shame that that was the last question to end what I think has been a really positive statement. You know, the statistics don’t back up what you’re saying. I don’t think we’ve had to use carrots and sticks. I really think people have engaged with this. I do accept that we’ve reached, with 58 or 59 per cent, a bit of a plateau and, to get to that 70 per cent, we are going to have to think about different things, about how we get that 50 per cent out of the residual waste into the recycling boxes. But, you know, every local authority is engaging in the way that you referred to in Anglesey and Conwy, not just those two local authorities. Unfortunately, we have 22 local authorities, and sometimes—I’m not saying we have 22 examples of how we do it, but, again, let’s look at best practice, let’s make sure that we get that best practice around Wales to ensure that we do reach those targets. They are ambitious, but I do think they are achievable and, as I mentioned in a previous answer, we chose to have those targets; we chose for Wales to be a high recycling nation. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

6. 5. Statement: Apprenticeships in Wales

We move on to the next item, which is a statement by the Minister for Skills and Science on apprenticeships in Wales, and I call on Julie James.

Julie James AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I also add my congratulations to you on your new role, in an effort to curry some favour? [Laughter.]I would like to take this opportunity to inform members about the Government’s plans regarding the recruitment of apprentices over the coming months. As my statement today will make clear, we are taking action quickly to deliver on our pledge for a 100,000 quality apprenticeships for all ages over the next five years. Apprenticeships in Wales are delivered on a flexible basis with people starting throughout the year, but by far the largest recruitment drive takes place in line with the school year. Therefore, changes will need to take place with immediate effect, so that an all-age approach can be applied to our apprenticeship contracts for delivery during the school year, which begins in early September.As you will all doubtless already know, the apprenticeship programme performs very well. Completion rates are consistently over 80 per cent, with many of them up as high as 86 per cent. Feedback from employers and apprentices is positive and the quality of the programmes delivered is rated highly by external assessors. Given this good track record, I intend to keep my focus on quality. We are committing to a minimum target number of apprenticeships over the next five years, but I am not going to be drawn into making commitments to numbers that cannot be delivered, nor am I going to compromise our established record of high quality. I believe in meaningful training that supports career progression for individuals, increases productivity for employers and in turn meets the future skills needs of our country. Our procurement and contracting arrangements and our partnership working with providers has proven to be very effective in our drive to raise standards and deliver high-quality, meaningful training, and that will remain unchanged.Over the next few months, we are taking action to engage with school leavers. An example is our ‘Have a Go’ programme, which gives young people the chance to use modern equipment and workplace technology in a safe and fun environment. This scheme will be expanded through joint working with schools, colleges, apprenticeship providers and Careers Wales. We have also made additional resource available to our apprenticeship providers to engage with employers and stakeholders to help them to be more aware of existing apprenticeship opportunities and new vacancies. These actions will ensure that school leavers, employees moving jobs and people returning to the labour market are aware of these openings and have plenty of time to apply for them. I want to ensure that people of any age can benefit from the opportunities offered by the quality apprenticeships we offer in Wales, but in particular those trying to enter or re-enter the labour market. I also want us to build on our established record of high-quality vocational education and training with a growing number of higher apprenticeships. Our higher apprenticeships at level 4 and above provide us with a golden opportunity to develop stronger and deeper skills among our existing workforce, and also to provide employers with the skilled staff they need to boost productivity, innovation and overall business performance. Last year, we saw big increases in the number of higher apprenticeships in Wales—an impressive 22 per cent of all apprenticeship starts. As we increase the number of higher apprenticeships, we will continue to support the broad sector priorities set out by our regional skills partnerships in their annual plans and also the national priorities set by Welsh Ministers.However, we do want to do more. We know there is a growing demand for us to expand higher level apprenticeships, particularly in professional science, technology and engineering sectors, as there is clear evidence of skills shortages in each of these areas. We believe we owe it to the people of Wales to strengthen progression to higher level skills; we need to work with our provider network to expand their capacity to deliver, including through Welsh-medium delivery. In addition, we will continue to ensure that those groups currently under-represented are given equal opportunities to benefit from our programme, and we have appointed a quality champion specifically to take forward this work.I am also exploring how we can increase degree-equivalent activity on the programme, and I will work with the outcomes from the Diamond review to encourage this development. To create a step change will involve new types of partnership working that include schools, colleges, work-based learning providers and the higher education sector. In turn, we will also need to review lower level apprenticeships, particularly where employers are not reporting skills shortages and there is a weak platform for career progression.We have already asked sector skills councils to ensure that the learning content on our key apprenticeship frameworks is relevant to the changing needs of employers in different industry sectors in Wales. In undertaking this work, the sector skills councils will ensure that employers have a greater input into the design of our apprenticeship frameworks while maintaining a system that is flexible and responsive to the evermore rapidly changing needs of the Welsh economy. We in the Welsh Government remain committed to the UK’s national occupational standards and the inclusion of qualifications in apprenticeship frameworks, as we know they provide skills that are recognised nationally and internationally.Last year, the Welsh Government consulted extensively on aligning our apprenticeship model with the needs of the economy in Wales and the wider UK. We published our consultation responses in July 2015. Since that time, we have delayed publishing our apprenticeship implementation plan to provide us with an opportunity to properly consider the impact of the UK Government’s proposals for the operation of the apprenticeship levy in England, and associated changes to apprenticeship standards. No-one in the skills arena can escape the issue of the apprenticeship levy. The levy is a matter of fundamental concern for the Welsh Government. Today, I regret to say that we still do not have complete clarity from the UK Government about how the planned apprenticeship levy scheme will operate in England and the impact in Wales. While things remain unclear, they should not and do not remove the need for us to seek greater certainty and to begin to plan apprenticeship provision here in Wales in more detail for the first and subsequent years of this new Assembly term.The plans I am announcing today start the process of delivery on our pledge for 100,000 all-age apprenticeships, as outlined in the First Minister’s statement in May. They also support our longer term vision for how apprenticeships contribute to a more prosperous, more resilient Wales and a more equal Wales. Apprenticeships are by far the most well-known and respected ‘earn whilst you learn’ option and the returns for individuals, employers and the broader economy are well documented. All-age apprenticeships, together with the all-age employability programme, are central to our proposed skills reforms. Apprenticeships are a proven route to sustainable employment and prosperity. The priorities I have announced today—a relentless focus on quality, opportunities for all, expansion of higher level skills and greater employer engagement—will ensure that this Government delivers on its pledge to the people of Wales.

Thank you very much. I call Plaid Cymru’s spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. May I congratulate you, Minister, on your appointment, and I look forward very much to shadowing the skills aspects of your portfolio, and may I thank you for your statement this afternoon? I will start by picking up on the comments that you made towards the end of your statement on the apprenticeships levy. You stated that there was still no total clarity. I would have liked a little more meat on the bone in terms of the negotiations that you’re having with the UK Government. I would be grateful for an update perhaps on how much negotiation has taken place first of all, and whether in your view it is a matter of a problem in sharing information, or do you think that there is a more fundamental problem in terms of confusion as to how the levy is to work, and the implications of that to Wales. I would also be grateful to hear your view as to whether the levy will be operational within the original timetable, or will we see some delays because there has been some mention of the possibility of delays in England, at least. And if the levy is introduced in Wales, then there have been some questions as to whether additional funding will be Barnett-ised, and so on and so forth. But if it is Barnett-ised, will you as a Government protect that additional funding for apprenticeships in Wales, or will that funding go into the wider coffers of the Welsh Government?You also made mention of the clear commitment to create 100,000 apprenticeships over the next five years, and that is something that we support, but there is a debate to be had, perhaps, as to the number of apprenticeships that have been created over the past five years. For the sake of clarity, I would ask you just to be clear that your intention as a Government is to go beyond what has been achieved in terms of numbers during the term of the last Government. In that regard, could you give us an assurance that you are confident that the capacity exists among the relevant bodies to actually achieve that level of apprenticeships? As the commitment you’ve made in your manifesto referred to provision for all ages, in terms of apprenticeships, then can you also give us an assurance that that will have no negative impact on the provision for those under the age of 25?In your statement, you also say that you want to develop certain kinds of apprenticeships and enhance the participation of under-represented groups—for example, more Welsh-medium provision. There’s a specific reference to that, and we welcome that clearly, but how will we know what success looks like? What will the measure be? Will there be a target? We know that only some 3 per cent of apprenticeships are delivered through the medium of Welsh at present; what’s your Government’s target over the next five years? What level would you like to see achieved in that regard? Then, also, there is there broader question as to how you intend to achieve that. You said, for example, in a statement back in January, during the last Government term, that you were looking in earnest at how you could improve and strengthen the Welsh-medium provision. I would be grateful for some further information on any work that has been done since that point in this particular area. Dywedasoch hefyd mewn datganiad yn gynharach eleni eich bod yn bwriadu cyflwyno cynlluniau prentisiaeth a rennir, sydd yn amlwg yn arbennig o werthfawr i fusnesau llai.Ni ddylai'r ardoll brentisiaethau arfaethedig effeithio arnynt fel y cyfryw, ond mae'n amlwg y gall y tarfu ehangach gael goblygiadau i'r sector.Efallai y gallech amlinellu'r cynnydd a wnaed gennych ar brentisiaethau a rennir neu o leiaf eich bwriadau a’ch dyheadau yn hynny o beth yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf.Yn olaf, Weinidog, gwyddom fod yr elw ar fuddsoddiad o brentisiaethau yn sylweddol iawn gyda phob £1 a fuddsoddir yn dod â manteision o hyd at £74 dros gyfnod oes yn ôl  Ffederasiwn Hyfforddiant Cenedlaethol Cymru, o'i gymharu â £57 wrth fuddsoddi mewn addysg uwch neu radd, efallai yn fwy penodol.Felly, a ydych chi'n cytuno â mi bod prentisiaethau yn cynrychioli un o'r enghreifftiau gorau o'r defnydd effeithiol o gronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd yng Nghymru, gan ddangos budd allweddol a chlir o aelodaeth Cymru o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd?

Julie James AC: Thank you for those questions. I’ll start with the last one: yes, about 25 per cent of the present programme is funded by European funds and I think it’s fair to say that without those funds the apprenticeship programme would not be the success it is today. We’ve also benefited from membership of various CVET organisations across Europe and indeed I have attended a conference in order to learn from the best practice across Europe in implementing apprenticeship schemes and work-based learning schemes in general. There’s no doubt at all, in my mind anyway, that our European Union membership has improved both the quality of and our ability to pay for our current programme. I’ll just go backwards through your questions because that’s the way I’ve written them down. In terms of the shared apprenticeship schemes, we do have a number of successful ones. One of the things that we’re looking to improve on is using the labour market intelligence from our regional skills partnerships, which are really all up and running very seriously now and we’re looking forward to getting their annual plans in any minute now—I think it’s the end of this month, off the top of my head; if I’m wrong I’ll correct myself, but I think it’s the end of this month. What they’re doing is driving regional arrangements of that sort and we all know that they help small employers the most. There was an excellent scheme up in Blaenau Gwent that I attended with Alun Davies, the launch of that alongside the local council, which is a very good exemplar of how those schemes can work. So, yes, what we’re very much looking to do is have horses for courses. So, the regional skills partnerships will drive a lot of the implementation in their area and that also goes for the Welsh language, because, as you know, there’s much more demand for apprenticeships through the medium of Welsh in various parts of Wales than there is, for example, in Swansea, where I represent, although there is some demand there. What we’ll be doing is working with a network of providers to make sure that where apprenticeships in Welsh are required, or where there’s a skills gap for that, that we can fill that gap with appropriate provision, and I look forward to working with the Member in doing that. We don’t know what success looks like for that at the moment because one of the things we want to do between now and September is to talk again to all of our stakeholders about exactly that and make sure that we shape the upcoming programme exactly right. What I’m announcing today really is the plan to consult on that over the summer and to come back to this Assembly early in the autumn term with a plan for that.In terms of the numbers and types that are part of that, I’m not going to be drawn on the numbers because it takes, for example, three times as much money to train an engineering apprentice as it does a business process apprentice. So, if I say that there will be an exact number, it may be that I then have to train more of the people we don’t want than the people we do want in order to hit what would be a false number target. What we’re saying is that there will be a minimum of 100,000. That’s around the level, because it went up and down a little bit over the last Assembly term, but it’s broadly equivalent to the level we had last time. That was a good level. It was assisted by a number of budget agreements with your party and the Liberal Democrats and we’re very happy to go ahead on that basis. But I do very much want to match the provision of apprenticeships to the need in the economy for it and our projected skills shortages.Then, last but not least, on the levy, we have had extensive communication and negotiation, with officials meeting. I’ve met with the Ministers myself. We do not have clarity. Our understanding at the moment is that it will be Barnettised in the same line as the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. BIS suffered a 17-ish per cent cut, and that would give us no extra money at all, but those negotiations are not yet over and I and the Minister for finance will be talking again in some depth about how we can maximise that for Wales. However, it’s not just Wales. In England, it is clear now that the apprenticeship levy moneys are replacing moneys that were previously in general taxation, and what we’re effectively looking at is a specific employer tax, replacing money that was previously given to this sort of funding by general taxation moneys.

Dawn Bowden AC: Can I thank the Minister for her statement? Minister, I recently met with the principal of Merthyr college and our dialogue included discussions around apprenticeship programmes delivered in conjunction with employers such as General Dynamics in Merthyr, which, working in partnership with Merthyr college, is creating two new all-age apprenticeship programmes starting in September 2016, when the first staff start taking up their employment at that facility. Those apprenticeships will be in manufacturing, engineering and mechanical fitter/craft apprenticeships. Will the Minister join me in applauding initiatives such as this, which will help to deliver Welsh Labour’s commitment to create 100,000 new apprenticeships in Wales during this Assembly term? Does she also agree that delivering apprenticeships funded by the public purse—and by that I mean both Welsh Government and European funding—through further education colleges like Merthyr could revitalise the further education sector as well as delivering best value for money by reinvesting in the public sector?

Julie James AC: Yes, I’m very happy to agree with the Member for Merthyr Tydfil that that scheme is very good. I’m familiar with it. I visited the college myself in the previous Assembly to have a look at some of the good schemes there. What is clear as well is that we have a number of employers who are very persuaded of the need for good-quality professional training, both for apprenticeships and for work-based learning in general. But we do have an uphill struggle, and the UK Commission for Employment and Skills’ last report—because, unfortunately, it’s now been abolished by the current Government—. The UKCES’ very useful last report showed us that, where employers do train in Wales, they are training more in Wales and they have higher quality training. But we aren’t making very many inroads into the number of employers that train—the large number of them who don’t train. So, we will be redoubling our efforts to reach out to the employers through the regional skills partnerships and the chambers of commerce and the Federation of Small Businesses and a number of other partners to bring as many of those employers into this fold as possible.

Thank you. The Conservative spokesperson, Mohammad Asghar.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. I also thank the Minister for her statement today. A skilled workforce enables a nation to prosper in an increasingly competitive global market. It is essential that we develop and adapt our skill base in Wales. We need to address the skills gap and end the inequalities in the existing system. To do this, it is vital that we can mobilise between all aspects of the education system and businesses to help young people to be more ready for work. Time and time again, we have heard how Wales’s students are leaving education without the right skills to help them get on in the world of work. So, can I ask the Minister what plans she has to strengthen ties between education, employment and especially the business community, to ensure that students have work-ready skills? Strengthening ties between educators and employers can help reduce the gender imbalance in Welsh industries. These closer links could bring young girls into contact with positive role models in non-traditional sectors who can promote apprenticeships as a viable alternative to university. May I ask the Minister what she’s doing to tackle the problem of gender imbalance here?The Welsh Government is also failing to support older people to take up skills and access training. The older people’s commissioner for Wales has warned about the cuts to lifelong learning and the need to keep our older people in the workforce and to bring them back into work as well. People have achieved degrees when they’re in their eighties, Minister, so why can’t they have some opportunity here in Wales to do the same? Does the Minister agree that apprenticeships should be delivered on a needs basis rather than on the age of the person?Finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, the Minister will be aware that I recently wrote to her to raise an example of the lack of flexibility in Jobs Growth Wales’s sustainability rate formula. Although this company has had its case successfully recognised, I am concerned that the rigid application of this formula could prevent companies in Wales from being allowed to take on apprentices and from providing much needed training and employment. Will the Minister agree to review the sustainability rate formula of Jobs Growth Wales to ensure that the system works and that the maximum jobs and training come into Wales?

Julie James AC: Thank you for those questions. On that last one, I’m not going to agree to review the sustainability formula because we think it works extremely well and is one of the reasons that the programme has been so successful. However, the Member has correctly identified—and I remember the letter very well—that occasionally we have decisions that are not in line with the formula and, on review there, we have examples where companies should’ve been allowed to take a Jobs Growth Wales applicant and, indeed, in the instance that the Member outlines, the review was successful and the company was allowed to go ahead. However, I don’t think that the odd occasion where the formula hasn’t been correctly applied in the first instance is a good reason to review the formula overall. One of the reasons that the scheme has been so successful—and we are looking forward to the final evaluation of it coming in very shortly; I hope before the summer recess—is that businesses have to demonstrate an ability to maintain people in that job and to grow themselves in line with the Welsh Government investment in the wage subsidy that the Jobs Growth Wales scheme represents. It isn’t a revolving door to take on more and more youngsters and give them unsustainable employment. So, I’m very pleased with the way the scheme works; I look forward to the final evaluation. But I accept that, in some instances, it does need review and, as you saw, we’re very happy to do that review.In terms of girls in non-traditional sectors, the Member will know that this is a hobby horse of mine as well; I’ve spoken many times in this Chamber on it. In fact, over the next few weeks, I’m visiting a number of workplaces to talk about that alongside ICE, the Institution of Civil Engineers, for example, which are holding a number of events and so on. The Member will also know that we fund Chwarae Teg to do a programme around getting girls into non-traditional industries and promote it in businesses where there are gender imbalances. And, indeed, we have a similar problem in health and social care where the gender balance is the other way around, and we’d like to see more male entrants into some areas of that economy and we’re working very hard to make sure that those opportunities are open to all.In terms of the all-age point, as the Member heard when I made my statement, we are, of course, committed to an all-age apprenticeship scheme. We recognise that age is not the only reason that you should go on to an apprenticeship scheme. However, we are still targeting 16 to 19-year-olds coming out of school to get into those schemes and we have targets for people wanting to change jobs and people returning to work. The reason for this is that we want to look very carefully at employers who want to place existing employees on schemes that they call apprenticeships, so that we can be sure that they are, in fact, apprenticeships and not a relabeling of an existing training scheme. I think the Member will appreciate why we want to make that distinction. This is about getting people into the workforce and getting people properly trained when in the workforce; it isn’t about labelling something to get a badge for it.I think, in terms of the ties, what we’re talking about in terms of the regional skills partnerships is very much about bringing education, employers and business communities together. We also run a scheme with help supported by businesses in the community. We’ve run a very successful pilot of that down in Carmarthenshire—I know some Members are familiar with it—and we are looking to roll that out in more areas of the country as rapidly as we can. That scheme is to get good-quality work experience out there. I would make a plea to the Member and, indeed, everybody else present in the Chamber today and say this: many employers tell me—in fact a very large percentage of employers, according to the UK Commission for Employment and Skills survey, say—that they’d be more inclined to take a person on as a new entrant to their firm if they had good work experience, but a very large number of those people who say that don’t actually provide work experience. So, if you have firms of that sort in your constituencies and regions, I urge you to encourage them to join our work experience schemes and to give that experience to a wider range of young people.

Jeremy Miles AC: Thank you, Minister, for the statement. Returning to the question of the apprenticeship levy for a moment, you referred to it as an employer tax in your statement. Is there any analysis of the potential risk to jobs in Wales of this levy on employers, being mindful that the point of apprenticeship, of course, is to get people into high-skilled, decently paid jobs?

Julie James AC: We haven’t got that, yet. Those of us who were present in the previous Assembly will know that we took a legislative consent motion through to allow HMRC to collect data in Wales and to data share it with us. At the moment, HMRC are the only people in possession of those data and we’re in negotiation with them around the costs of releasing those data to us. However, we do know, in conversation with officials from the UK Government, that it’s proved to be as difficult as we thought it might be, and more difficult than they thought it might be, to correctly identify who works and lives in Wales, because, obviously, we have a very porous border, which many Members will be aware of. We are continuing to push the UK Government very heavily on this, but it has to be said that, even in the English scheme, as proposed, they are clearly replacing moneys that used to be funded through general taxation with moneys now funded through this very specific employers tax.

Rhianon Passmore AC: I wish to congratulate our Minister and the Welsh Government on the continuing strategic commitment to the apprenticeship agenda in securing a more prosperous and resilient and equal Wales. I’m also very proud to have been elected on our manifesto pledge of around 100,000 new apprenticeships, and that’s further to the success of Jobs Growth Wales. I also very much welcome the cross-party consensus that I’ve heard again today over the importance of the apprenticeships programmes, but there’s a very real risk that’s staring us in the face, and it’s already been articulated today. Although I share very much the concerns over the apprenticeship levy, I need to state that 94,000 apprenticeships, as you are aware, over the next four years, are to be supported by £83 million-worth of EU social funds. Does the Minister believe that removal of European funding from Wales via a vote to leave will indeed, as the party opposite wish to see, put at risk such valued and life-changing apprenticeship programmes and consequently put at risk the entire Welsh economy?

Julie James AC: I do entirely agree that the loss of European structural and social funding to the apprenticeship programme would be a grievous blow to Wales, but I’d like to take it a bit further than just the money. As I said in my previous answer to Llyr, actually, we’ve benefitted hugely from sharing good practice across Europe and from being able to be part of the European family in terms of developing good vocational training programmes. We’ve visited several countries in Europe that have excellent vocational training programmes. Members may be familiar with the dual qualification programmes in Germany, for example. There are excellent examples in Holland and a number of others that we were able to take advantage of. Indeed, in shaping our own very successful apprenticeship programme, we’ve taken account of those very good examples. I think that’s another reason for not wanting to be an isolated little island on the edge of a very big continent.

Thank you very much. And, finally, Michelle Brown.

Michelle Brown AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the pledge to create myriad and loads more apprenticeships. Quality training is extremely important, and the intentions in creating these apprenticeships are laudable, but apprentices need work to go to after they’ve finished their apprenticeships. So, without those jobs to go to, the apprenticeship is of personal value for the apprentice, but it’s largely window dressing without a job to go to. So, what I’d like to ask the Minister is: what’s the Welsh Government doing to encourage the production of jobs for these apprentices to go to and to ensure that these apprentices can use their training to earn a decent living? What support can you provide employers to encourage them to take these apprentices on after they’ve finished their training? Thank you.

Julie James AC: So, the Member will have heard in my statement that what I talked about is encouraging apprenticeship provision in skill-shortage areas in Wales, as identified through the regional skills partnerships, both for the three regions of Wales where we have the partnerships and for Wales as a whole. The Member may have heard my replies to other Members about our sorrow that the UKCES survey has been stopped by the UK Government. We are in conversation with the other devolved nations about whether we can take that forward on our own, because we used that survey very much to shape our provision, to make sure that we employ apprentices in areas where we know there are skills shortages and, therefore, jobs for them to go into once they’re trained. The Member may also have heard me mention that we’re reviewing some of our level 2 apprentice provision where we know that we are overproviding in some areas and we want to discourage the provider network from providing a very large number of level 2 apprentices in areas where we know there’s overprovision and, instead, redirect their efforts into areas where we know there’s underprovision. That also means—because we know the underprovision is mostly in the higher skilled areas—that we want to encourage apprenticeships not just at the entry level, level 2, or that we want school leavers to go into those, but we want an all-age apprenticeship system that encourages people at level 3, A-level equivalent, and level 4, foundation degree and upwards, to go into the apprenticeship system as well to fill the higher level skills shortages that employers report through the regional skills partnerships and, indeed, actually, up to this year, through UKCES. So, we do have a strategy for that.Also, an apprentice has to be employed in the first place, obviously, in order to be an apprentice, and a large number of the shared apprenticeship schemes that we have are ways of getting around that by—. For example, Blaenau Gwent—a very progressive scheme where the council is able to act as the employer for a number of shared apprentices for very small SMEs that would not otherwise be able to afford the employment costs. So, we do look at that very much. The Member identifies a very important point, and we continue to look at that through our regional skills partnerships.

Thank you very much, Minister. There we are, we’ve redeemed ourselves and back—I’ve redeemed myself by not running over.

7. 6. Statement: Volunteering Week

The next item on the agenda then is item 6, which is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children—volunteering week. I call the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children, Carl Sargeant.

Carl Sargeant AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thought it important to take a moment at the beginning of this fifth term to say ‘thank you’ to all the people who volunteer here in Wales. There certainly are a lot of them. Almost one in three Welsh people volunteer in Wales in some way. Volunteers’ Week provides a chance to think about the difference volunteers have made to our lives and our communities, and to encourage even more people to volunteer.This year, there were celebrations across Wales, including the national Volunteer of the Year awards at Cardiff castle last Friday, and I’d like to take a moment for us to acknowledge the dedication and achievements of just a few of those winners. Sue Osman, a retired neonatal nurse, spends her time, having retired, helping the families of children with disabilities. Sue volunteers at Newport’s children’s centre to help families and children through some of the most difficult times they ever face. People use words like ‘inspiring’ and ‘privilege’ when they talk about the work with her.A group of young people, acting as world heritage ambassadors, working to promote the world heritage town of Blaenavon, are inspiring other young people to take a community lead. Imogen, a young person from Monmouth, volunteers at the Caerwent inclusive youth club. Imogen helps young people with complex needs. Her colleagues call Imogen a real ambassador for commitment, competence and willingness to help other young volunteers with what they have to offer. Valerie from Cardiff has been instrumental, as a member of the Insole Court Trust, in saving a historic building, Insole Court, for public benefit, and Michael Baker of Pontypridd is another person. He’s described as one of the most committed volunteers in running the Too Good To Waste project. Michael has overcome very real difficulties to help others in projects that focus on improving the environment through recycling. Since January 2010, Michael himself has volunteered over a staggering 7,500 hours.Countless organisations are appreciative of the contribution of their volunteers. In addition to the national awards, a great number of local celebrities took part last week. For example, Groundwork North Wales held a volunteers’ event as a ‘thank you’ for all the support and hard work carried out over the past year.As I mentioned, about one in three of our citizens volunteer—that’s nearly 1 million people in Wales volunteering every year, here in Wales. It’s hard to be precise because so much voluntary action is carried out by people who may not even think that they’re volunteering themselves. Nevertheless, this is a figure we should celebrate. To use a sporting analogy to illustrate the numbers, which I know my north Wales colleagues may appreciate, you could fill the Deeside Stadium 624 times over with the number of volunteers recorded each year—an attendance that my local team, Nomads, would be very pleased to have, I’m sure. But Wales has, of course, always had a strong sense of community spirit. In many respects this forms the character of our nation, and we must do all we can to foster and harness this rich seam of community spirit.Presiding Officer, I’d like to acknowledge the value that volunteering contributes to our economy and society, and also those countless individuals who, every single day, provide vital support to family members, neighbours and friends in need. It’s even harder to put a firm number on this than to calculate the precise number of volunteers. However, we can imagine the additional strain on public services if the myriad of community groups and charities were not there at the front line that we all see.I’m proud that this Welsh Government has been committed to encouraging and supporting volunteers. This commitment was reaffirmed last year in our volunteering policy, ‘Supporting Communities, Changing Lives’. The Welsh Government stands by the principles set out in that document, which affirms that we are doing the right things already. For example, supporting new volunteers through grants—and this year the Welsh Government has offered over £5 million to support volunteering grants and county voluntary councils. Over 8,000 volunteer placements were made last year, with funding for 417 young people receiving 200 hours of Millennium Volunteers certificates—enabling the WCVA to maintain a database of over 5,000 volunteering opportunities, and training people to provide the support volunteers need. Last year our funding helped to train 5,000 trustees.There are also new actions to be taken forward. I’ll mention just a few today. Volunteering can promote social inclusion. We need better intelligence on the barriers that prevent some people from volunteering—particularly those who have higher support needs. We will work with partners to better understand and tackle these barriers. In some circumstances, volunteering can be the route to employment. It’s also important that we help volunteers to evidence the skills they have developed and we will also identify an appropriate way for doing this too.We also want to make sure that the funding we invest in supporting volunteers provides the best value for money. We will make sure that existing volunteering offers are more straightforward, making it simple, effective and accessible, whether it is learning more through social media or the internet or walking into the local volunteering centre. Employers also have a role in encouraging volunteering. Some of you may be aware that civil servants at the Welsh Government are afforded up to five days a year for voluntary activities, taking their expertise into communities and voluntary organisations. Civil servants are encouraged to use volunteering as a way of giving back to the community and taking the Welsh Government into communities and learning, themselves, from the experience of the programmes. This may be something you would like to consider doing yourself—or your own staff, as Members and colleagues. There is help available through the volunteering-wales.net website, which has over 5,000 volunteering opportunities.

The Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Carl Sargeant AC: I’m keen to renew our bond with the third sector and maximise the potential for volunteering. I’d like to see an even bigger number of volunteers. People giving of their own time for the benefit of others, making a big difference to communities and the people who live in them.Presiding Officer, it’s a day for celebration and recognising the great work that volunteers do throughout the year. This is just placing on record our thanks from the Welsh Government.

Bethan Sayed AC: Thank you, Minister, for the statement. First of all, I think it’s important that we should, in the culture of having the European championships in France at the moment, acknowledge all the sporting volunteers, especially with regard to grass-roots football, who are doing so much to make sure that players can come through from communities, because, quite often, many young people come through those particular teams via the good work of volunteers, and they wouldn’t be able to do that without that key work. Having attended the Sports Personality of the Year awards, along with other Assembly Members, in December last year, it showed how many people of all ages are involved in grass-roots sports on a voluntary basis.Minister, your statement mentions work to understand and tackle barriers to volunteering. One of the barriers I’m sure you may be aware of is that many people are put upon sanctions by the DWP if they take part in certain types of volunteering. Obviously, I totally disagree with this, and I’m sure you would too, in terms of people showing willing to go out into their communities and being punished for that. So, I wonder whether you could engage with the DWP in that regard to ask them to come up with a publicity campaign to try and encourage people to volunteer in a positive way, because it is actually putting people off. They are feeling quite vulnerable to the proposition of volunteering at the moment, from certain aspects of society.Will you ensure that Welsh Government funding of the third sector includes funding posts for volunteer managers, who play a crucial role in recruiting and retraining volunteers, and that this funding is long term, and is not contract based? That is something that has been raised with me early on in this post. It must be noted volunteering can and should never replace public sector delivery by paid staff. There was news some time ago where one particular health board was proposing that volunteers deliver and administer meals within a given hospital, and I’d like reassurance from the Minister that this isn’t the direction that you see volunteering going in at all.I appreciate also that we have the reality of the situation where asset transfer is happening across councils in Wales, and I appreciate the former Minister put out guidance with regard to people running such services, but again I think it’s important that if people are taking on additional roles in their communities, such as running community centres, swimming pools and sports centres, that that is recognised and is not taken advantage of. Quite often I would attend local groups and it is the same people doing everything. They get quite tired and stressed by that very fact. So, I think, yes, volunteering is a very important thing to do, but we also have to balance that with life stresses and the well-being of the individual in that regard.The final point I would like to finish on, also on the well-being aspect, is young people. In researching this statement today I found that many young people are doing unpaid work that obviously is being defined as volunteering, but actually they should potentially be being paid for that work. So I hope that’s something that you can look into as well, Minister.

Carl Sargeant AC: First of all, I thank the Member for her questions and her contribution today. I absolutely agree with the Member in terms of supporting volunteers across the length and breadth of the UK and Wales. In particular, I pay tribute to two of my good friends, Leanne and Bernie Attridge, who put the nets up at the local football club in rain or shine, and without them the game wouldn’t go on. So, a big thank you to people just like them. I think it is really important, no matter what they do, that there’s an action that helps community spirit and bond communities.I will look very closely at the issue of sanctions. I think volunteering gives lots of people an opportunity who have been socially excluded, actually; it’s often an opportunity back into communities, and I think it would be something that I would be very concerned about if the DWP have a negative view on that. I will take that up and I will write to the Member following that conversation.I can’t guarantee—I know the Member asked and rightly so, and she’s been lobbying—I can’t guarantee any long-term funding for managers in posts anywhere across my department. The reality is that finances are very challenging. But what I do acknowledge is the work that managers and organisations do in securing the bigger opportunity of training and support for volunteers on the ground. So, I am sympathetic, and I will do all I can, but I can’t promise the Member long-term funding in that guise.Volunteering shouldn’t be an alternative to public services, but there is a balance in terms of her other point around asset transfer as well. What I’d like to see more is the partnership of public services working with the voluntary sector, and how can we secure sometimes some great assets in our communities, such as swimming baths. I know we’ve seen community groups taking over publicly owned swimming pools into their community, and they do a very good job of that as well, not-for-profit organisations. But this is about enablement, making sure that we can help support people who have the will and want to do this. How can we as Government and organisations help them have the confidence to make sure that they can make a real difference in their communities? We have so many volunteers, young and old, and I’m really impressed by the enthusiasm that our young volunteers bring to communities. I’ve seen some great projects already in a very short time in this portfolio now, but in my previous role, when I looked after volunteers before, I saw some great and incredible projects where young people were interacting with elderly people, and I think it breaks down some real significant barriers—the personal anxiety between the two groups can be dissolved by just sitting round with a cup of tea and talking about things collectively. So, I genuinely thank the volunteers across Wales and thank you for your contribution.

Mark Isherwood AC: I’m delighted to join with you in celebrating the fantastic contribution made by nearly 1 million volunteers in Wales. I note that Volunteering Week was extended this year from 1-12 June, and we must also celebrate the extension associated with the Queen’s ninetieth birthday and her contribution, having been the patron of more than 600 charities and organisations.As you said, we can all imagine the additional strain on our public services if the myriad of community groups and charities were not there at the front line. As you rightly said, we also want to make sure the funding we invest in support for volunteers provides the best value for money, and, you’re keen to renew your bond with the third sector and maximise the potential for volunteering—and the opportunity certainly exists for that. How would you address concerns that that smarter, best-value-for-money, invest-to-save approach hasn’t been embraced? At the end of the last Assembly, for example, Welsh Government cuts to child contact centres and cuts to funding for specialist intervention services supporting families through their relationship breakdown will impact on other services, generating far higher costs, for example, for health, education and social services; or the 9 per cent cut to local county voluntary charities, which Flintshire Local Voluntary Council said in a letter to me would devastate their ability to support more user-led preventative and cost-effective services. In other words, using the more limited money smarter, we can safeguard those services by working differently.How do you respond to the statement by the Wales Council for Voluntary Action that Welsh Government and the sector need to refresh current engagement mechanisms, to develop, promote and monitor a programme for action based on co-production and common ground? Their report on citizen-directed support said that there’s scope for local authorities, health boards and the third sector to work much more imaginatively to develop better services that are closer to people, more responsive to needs and add value by drawing on community resources. In fact, replacing hierarchies, power and control with real engagement, better lives and more cohesive communities.In terms of your pledge, or your ambition, to work more closely with the sector in your statement, how will you engage with the newly launched co-production network for Wales? I was a guest at that launch on 26 May in mid Wales with representatives from the public sector and the third sector from every corner of Wales—a packed event, with presentations ranging from Monmouthshire County Council to a session I co-chaired with an officer from Flintshire County Council. The findings that that group reported included: campaigning for change within the Welsh Government, turning the system upside down, challenging people and the systems that restrict us. That working group, as I said, I co-chaired, and that presentation was made by an officer. I was the only politician around the table, so it was hardly a partisan event. Responding to, perhaps, Professor Edgar Cahn, the Washington civil rights lawyer, who developed the concept of co-production to explain how important neighbourhood-level support systems are for families and communities and how they can be rebuilt—he spoke at that event. This is a movement that began in the 1970s; it wasn’t a response to austerity, it was how to tackle deeply rooted problems in communities—in that case, in America, but they also exist here. I’ll finish at that point.

Carl Sargeant AC: I thank the Member for his contribution. I think the First Minister was very clear, when he became the First Minister in the fifth term, about having a very different conversation with both political parties and members of the public. I think the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 actually puts into legislation what terms and conditions we have to comply with as a Government, about engagement with citizens. That’s certainly what I want to do. I want to listen to all sectors outside Government, to listen to the concerns that you have raised on their behalf, too. There are many organisations who I know do a tremendous job in all our communities, but the reality is, Mark, that in the last term of Government we were restricted by £1.9 billion less money coming into the Welsh economy because of the UK Government.I cannot fill or mitigate that effect, and the fact therefore is that a 9 per cent reduction for some of the CVCs was inevitable. Actually, in some areas, we have to make choices and they’re very difficult. In politics—and, Mark, you’ve been in this game a long time, as well as I have—now is probably one of the most challenging times we find as a Government because the finances just aren’t there. We have to do things very, very differently, and I’m prepared to have that conversation with all aspects of people who want to do different things in their communities, but also have the same objectives as this Government about the well-being of communities right across Wales.I think I spoke about this element to Bethan Jenkins earlier on. I think I see my role and the role of Welsh Government as about enabling people to do more, and if we can only support people to do well in their communities as a Government, I think we’re on the right side of that. I cannot commit to increasing funding for organisations when we just don’t have the finances to do that. But I’m grateful for the Member’s contribution, and I look forward to working with him and some of the groups that he represents here today.

Vikki Howells AC: Many residents in my constituency of Cynon Valley are amongst the 1 million or so people across Wales who give freely of their time to improve their communities and the lives of their neighbours. Volunteers’ Week gives us an opportunity to say ‘thank you’ and to highlight their contribution. Will you join with me in offering congratulations to the 40,000 volunteers from across the UK who worked with the Trussell Trust last year to provide food banks across Wales, for their part in helping the organisation to become the overall winner in the Charity Awards 2016?Secondly, volunteers are having to take responsibility for the delivery of more and increasingly complex local services due to public sector spending cuts, for example through community asset transfers. This can often require complex management skills. How is the Welsh Government supporting volunteers in developing these?Finally, studies have shown that volunteering can improve an individual’s mental health. How can the Welsh Government best promote this within its volunteering policy?

Carl Sargeant AC: I thank the Member for her contribution. I know that she represents Cynon Valley really well, and representing the many people who volunteer in her community; I also say ‘thank you’ to those. It was a rather sad indictment, really, that one of the fastest-growing businesses last year was food banks, and the fact of the matter is that I believe it is caused by austerity that we have to do this. But 40,000 people take time out to support each other in our community; we should, again, be very proud of that, and I place on record my thanks to the Trussell Trust food banks and all food banks that operate across our communities. It’s a very sad indictment that we need them, but we’ve got them and they’re run very well.Community asset transfer is another element of complex programmes. What I’m keen to do—and this may sound challenging—I think we miss a trick because some of our communities that need these assets the most are the ones that are enabled. Actually, we have many aspects of community engagement where we have ex-professional retired people who can manage these organisations very well, but the communities where we don’t have these people living actually have the people who need them most, and that’s where we should be absolutely, deep-dive, looking at supporting our most vulnerable communities, where we should be encouraging more take-up of this.The Member is absolutely right to raise the issue about well-being and mental health also. I said to Members earlier on that I think accessing volunteering gives people the softer option into possibly employment later on, but moving into a different space of building relationships with communities, with other individuals, when sometimes they may have had some very challenging personal issues themselves. So, I think volunteering is the correct route, and we should encourage all people from all walks of life. But, actually, with regard to the issue around supporting people with mental health issues, volunteering can be a great option.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: I am taking the unusual step for me of speaking in Welsh here in the Chamber. It’s not because I am fluent in Welsh, but because I’m not fluent in Welsh, but I’m trying to get there. So, if Members are willing to bear with me, I will try my best to take faltering steps towards fluency on a very public stage. This is high risk. [Laughter.]In the Bridgend and Ogmore region, like so many other regions, we have many people in so many organisations who contribute their time and effort to make things a little better, a little easier, in so many ways. From the Wombles in Pontycymer and Ogmore Valley Pride in Ogmore Vale, tidying up their local environment, to the Caerau Community Growers providing fresh food and horticulture skills to their communities, from the Bridgend Samaritans providing someone to listen to when times are tough to the many food-bank volunteers in almost every town and village: this is a sad reflection of these austere times, but a reflection too of the generous spirit of our communities.So, would the Minister commend the work of all of these organisations and volunteers, and the companies and employers, who often now give time off to staff to volunteer, and to those co-ordinating organisations like BAVO, the Bridgend Association of Voluntary Organisations, in Bridgend? Would the Minister also agree with me that it’s not that hard value, in terms of pounds and pence, that’s important, but the human value of giving and of being there when others need you? That goes on every hour of every day throughout Wales, and it is right that we celebrate that during this Volunteers’ Week.

Carl Sargeant AC: Diolch yn fawr i chi. Thank you very much for your contribution, Huw. Your Welsh is outstanding compared to mine, may I say?First of all, there’s nothing you’ve said I can disagree with. I think you related to many of the community activities in the area you represent. I am familiar with some of those organisations and it’s right to say also that there are some companies that actively seek to engage with their employees, pushing them into volunteering opportunities because it actually brings back more for the company too. It’s not in your constituency, but I was with volunteers from GE yesterday, and Jo Foster was leading a team of volunteers out and about. There are many other organisations that do that.I think what it does say—and I think you made reference to this—volunteering not only has a positive experience on our communities but, actually, it is the heart of our community Welsh spirit. It just defines us. I think what we can give, and it’s not in monetary terms, but it’s about social interaction. I think you’re absolutely right: we should celebrate the volunteers in your community and many communities across Wales.

Darren Millar AC: Minister, I’m very grateful for you bringing this statement today. I think it’s only right that we pay tribute as an Assembly to the tremendous efforts of volunteers across Wales. But I am a little bit disappointed because the one significant group of volunteers that you didn’t mention were those in faith groups across the country in churches, mosques and other settings. You’ll be aware, because of your previous ministerial engagement with such groups, that they make a tremendous contribution across Wales in many, many different ways, whether that’s through youth groups, being custodians of some wonderful buildings or simply serving the elderly or disadvantaged in our communities.There was a report, of course, which was published back in 2008—and things have moved on significantly since then—which identified that such individuals are giving 80,000 hours per week in terms of their volunteering contribution here in Wales, and that was 42,000 volunteers that had been mobilised, as a result of their faith and their engagement in faith communities across Wales, to undertake some volunteering. So, I wonder, Minister, what you’re doing to increase the capacity of faith groups to expand their volunteering efforts and what you’re doing specifically as a Government to recognise their achievements and to thank them for them achievement to society here in Wales. I’m sure you would want to do that now in the Chamber.

Carl Sargeant AC: May I thank the Member for his question? To take one issue, I was non-specific about volunteers—it was a general position of volunteering and, of course, I recognise the many, many hours, the uncounted hours, actually, that faith groups and other organisations take part in. Indeed, I was a member many years ago of the Salvation Army Boys Adventure Corps—many, many years ago—but that only happened because there were volunteers prepared to run this club for individuals. I visited the soup kitchen in Cardiff, which looks after homeless people, run by the Salvation Army again. So, I recognise that the faith sector has so many opportunities too.Again, non-specifically, I think that what we should all do is encourage all volunteers from all walks of life to get engaged, and it’s something that this Welsh Government will continue.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

8. 7. Statement: The Welsh Language and Local Government

The next item is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on the Welsh language and local government. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Mark Drakeford.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Today I am publishing ‘Language, Work and Bilingual Services’, the report of the working group on the Welsh Language in local government administration and economic development. This report was commissioned in December 2015 by my predecessor, the Minister for Public Services. This was in response to concerns about the Welsh language raised by Assembly Members during scrutiny of the Local Government (Wales) Act 2015. I wish to extend my thanks and appreciation to the chair of the working group, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, and to the members of the working group for drafting this report in such a short period of time. This gives the Welsh Ministers a timely opportunity to consider the conclusions of the report at the start of a new Assembly term, and within the framework of our duties under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. I was especially glad to be able to meet Rhodri Glyn Thomas last week and to hear directly from him about the way in which the group set about its work and came to its conclusions. I think it’s important to set out the context of the report, as its authors perceived it. As they say in the introduction:‘We have been asked to look specifically at the Welsh language in its traditional heartlands in west and north Wales, through the lens of Local Government. Local Government has been central to the implementation of national policies and, particularly, to the provision of the Welsh-language education system. We owe an enormous debt to Local Government. Local Authorities in west Wales—the Isle of Anglesey, Gwynedd, Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire—have been proactive in their support for the language, but good practice is evident in all parts of Wales.’Against that background, the report identifies the different ways in which the role of local authorities is key in numerous ways. Local authorities are in the front line of promoting and facilitating the Welsh language. They provide essential services in Welsh-medium education and teaching Welsh in schools. They have wide-ranging responsibilities for children and families, for childcare and nursery provision, for social services and support for older people. Local authorities support resilient Welsh-language communities through their planning, economic development, housing and regeneration functions, and local government is a significant employer in all parts of Wales, providing high-quality jobs and professional careers for local people and also an opportunity to work through the medium of Welsh and to serve the public in Welsh. The role of local government, therefore, is to secure the future of the language through education, to ensure the presence of the language every day in work and services, and to ensure the resilience of the language in prosperous communities.The report includes 14 recommendations, which its chair describes in his foreword as ‘challenging but practical’.Mae'r argymhellion, Lywydd, wedi'u grwpio o dan nifer o benawdau.Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys arweinyddiaeth, ar y lefel cenedlaethol a lleol, gan gyfeirio at gyfrifoldebau Llywodraeth Cymru, comisiynydd y Gymraeg a thimau arweinyddiaeth mewn llywodraeth leol.Mae'r adrannau ar weithlu a hyfforddiant dwyieithog yn ymwneud â'r gallu i siarad Cymraeg yng ngweithlu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.Mae'r adran ar dechnoleg yn ymdrin â'r cyfleoedd cyffrous y mae technolegau cyfieithu digidol yn dechrau eu cynnig ac, o dan y pennawd newid ymddygiad, mae'r adroddiad yn archwilio cyfleoedd ar gyfer defnyddio cipolwg ymddygiadol a hwb damcaniaethau yng nghyd-destun y gweithle a'r defnydd o wasanaethau yn Gymraeg.Mae adran olaf yr adroddiad yn ymwneud â swyddogaeth llywodraeth leol mewn datblygu economaidd ac mewn creu a chynnal cymunedau cydnerth.Actions from the recommendations fall to a range of bodies to take. Legislation would be the responsibility of the Welsh Government and the National Assembly. Recommendations about recruitment and workforce planning would fall to local authorities, whilst those relating to training touch on the functions of the National Centre for Learning Welsh. There are a number of recommendations concerning research and the evidence base that identify actions for our universities. Not all the recommendations were unanimously supported by all members of the working group, but all are quite certainly of direct interest to those who provide local authority services and their partners. It is for this reason that I am publishing the report today for a period of engagement over the summer.Presiding Officer, the scope of the report is wide and it touches on policy areas across Government. I welcome the opportunity to listen to the views of local government and other stakeholders as we consider the conclusions of the report, and before we publish a Welsh Government response in the autumn.

Siân Gwenllian AC: May I congratulate you, Mark Drakeford, on your recent appointment, and I look forward to working with you? Plaid Cymru and I welcome this report today. There are clear, robust recommendations made, and we congratulate Rhodri Glyn Thomas, who is a former Member of this place, on his excellent work, as well as his fellow members, on their work too.I’m sure you would agree that bilingual, robust public services can make a huge contribution to the regeneration of the Welsh language. I think that there are three important points that we should bear in mind in this area. Strengthening the rights of service users in the public sector enhances people’s confidence in using the Welsh language, as well as strengthening their rights, of course. Allowing and strengthening Welsh-medium working as part of the daily pattern of work of Welsh speakers also enhances people’s confidence.It’s also important to note that making the Welsh language a key skill does give an entirely practical purpose to the speaking of Welsh, to Welsh-medium education and provides a reason for learning Welsh. And I’m sure that you would agree with me that creating a Welsh labour market is extremely important in the process of regenerating the Welsh language.Until very recently, I was a councillor on Gwynedd Council, and many of you will be aware of the enlightened policies of that particular council, and it’s no accident that some of the communities around the headquarters of that council have seen an increase in the number of Welsh speakers, which is contrary to what has happened in many other areas in Wales. Some communities have seen an increase in the number of Welsh speakers since the census. The village of Waunfawr, for example, had an increase from 73 per cent to 75 per cent in the number of Welsh speakers. Would you agree with me therefore that there are other local authorities now in Welsh-speaking heartlands that do want to move forward and further develop their policies, and that the leadership for that has to come from the Welsh Government, as the working group notes?I do welcome the recommendations on workforce planning certainly, but there are two things that do cause concern. How can you implement the recommendations if responsibility for the Welsh language in the workforce isn’t going to sit with the National Centre for Learning Welsh in future? The likelihood is that the teaching of Welsh in the workplace will fall to another organisation. There’s a great deal of uncertainty surrounding that. So, I think it would be difficult to implement some of the recommendations in the report. And the other problem, of course, is the financial resources required. We have seen the departmental resources for the Welsh language cut. Do you therefore share my concern about the implementation of some of the recommendations in this report, albeit that they are very robust? We welcome them very much, but they now need to be implemented. Do you share my concern that it may not be possible for these to be implemented under current circumstances?

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much to Sian Gwenllian for those comments. Thank you for the welcome that she has given to the report. Of course, I do agree that to strengthen the rights of those people who use services through the medium of Welsh does raise their confidence in doing so. What the report says is that the greatest challenge is to create situations where people use the language when they enter those services, and by doing that it’s about being clear to the people who provide those services that the skills that they have to be able to do things through the medium of Welsh are skills that we appreciate and are skills that will be important to them when they create their own futures.I’m sure, when I’ve been speaking to young people, people who receive their education through the medium of Welsh, that it’s important to persuade them that the fact that they can speak Welsh is something that they can sell in the workplace. It’s something, not just a subject that they consider or learn, but a general skill that they can implement and use in the workplace here in Wales.The report does draw attention to what has happened in Gwynedd and it draws attention to Ceredigion and Carmarthen where things that follow the leader, Gwynedd, are in place already. And it also says—and it’s important to note this—that the situation across Wales is not the same. There will be things that work in Carmarthen that won’t work in the same way, for example, in Torfaen. The report states that clearly.Wrth gwrs, mae heriau yn yr argymhellion.Mae cadeirydd y gweithgor yn gwneud hynny'n glir yn ei gyflwyniad ei hun, pan ddywed bod yr argymhellion yn heriol.Ond, diben rhoi'r adroddiad ar gael i'r cyhoedd heddiw, gwahodd sylwadau arno gan awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru a'r bobl hynny sy'n gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol a'r bobl hynny sy'n defnyddio gwasanaethau awdurdodau lleol, yw ein helpu ni i nodi'r heriau hynny, i feddwl am ffyrdd y gallwn ymateb iddynt ac yna rhoi ymateb y Llywodraeth i'r adroddiad, a fydd yn dilyn yn yr hydref, wedi ei gyfoethogi gan yr amrywiaeth ehangach honno o gyfraniadau.

Suzy Davies AC: Congratulations from me too, new Cabinet Secretary. May I also thank you for your statement today and for the report? Of course, I haven’t had an opportunity to give it the attention it deserves. I would like to do that before too long. But it’s clear from some of what I’ve seen already that this work doesn’t duplicate work that’s already been done in this area. So, there is a chance now for us to move forward with these recommendations. That is something that we should celebrate, I think. As you said, it’s going to be quite challenging for some of us, but having looked at them in detail, we will have an opportunity to bring forward our own clear ideas and our stance as a party. If I could just turn first of all to the standards, because Sian raised the issue of rights. I personally would like to see standards working here in Wales. It has been disappointing, I have to say, that there have been so many appeals submitted to the commissioner from some of our local authorities here in Wales. It’s disappointing, given the work that has taken place between the commissioner’s office, the Welsh Government and the councils themselves. As I said, I would like to see the standards working effectively, so I would like to see the number of appeals reduced and the risk of judicial review also. I don’t want to see that happening. So, do you think it would be possible, in response to this report, to say something about the test that you as a Government use in ensuring that the regulations introducing the standards make it clear why you as a Government have deemed them to be reasonable and proportionate, because that is the fundamental point of standards, just in order to avoid these appeals from coming through in the first place? You mention in your statement the assistance available for those working in our public services, particularly our councils, and I agree with you on that point, but it is not just about resources, shall we say, because it’s important that everyone has these. If people want to use the Welsh language, they should have the opportunity to speak Welsh and learn Welsh within our councils. But I was thinking more of a culture shift, because, as you know, not every council in Wales has taken up this agenda, and it is still something of a battle for hearts and minds, shall we say, with some of our councils, and with some councillors particularly. I saw some words in the report on leadership by our senior officials, and there are questions here about what would be relevant or pertinent to them, but I would like to know more about the way in which we deal with the attitude towards the language of some of our elected members in some places and some of our officials, depending on where they work. This can be a difficult issue, even now, it’s sad to say. May I conclude just by saying something about economic development? There isn’t much in the statement on that, but there is a great deal in the report and I haven’t had an opportunity to look at it in detail. Sian Gwenllian is entirely right in mentioning the value of learning Welsh—just seeing it as a benefit and an advantage in our daily lives and especially in the workplace. It’s no surprise really that I am interested in the Swansea bay city region. I have seen that there is reference in the report to some of the communities in the west of that development, but I would like to know what an economic language strategy would mean in those traditionally non-Welsh-speaking communities, because there are many within my region. If you look at Welsh-language skills as a tool against poverty, there is a question as to what an economic language plan will mean in communities such as those. Thank you.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much to Suzy Davies for those comments. Rhodri Glyn Thomas states in the report that they didn’t just want to rake over old ground that people had looked at previously. They wanted to move the debate forward and draw lessons from the work that has already been done, but also to set down some new issues for us to discuss and also some practical steps that people can take. That’s why the recommendations are very important, I believe. The working group has dealt with the standards. It’s in the foreword, where they discuss that, but I’ve heard what the Member has said this afternoon and I know that Alun Davies has heard what Suzy has said, also. They state in the report, as Suzy Davies has said, that it’s more than about financial resources, it’s about attitudes. They’re important. But it also says that, when they went out to talk to people, there wasn’t a lack of goodwill. Sometimes the problem was to help people to turn that goodwill into things that they can do to promote the Welsh language. Now, I acknowledge that things aren’t at the same position in all parts of Wales, but that’s what the report says: it’s not a lack of goodwill. That’s not the problem, but it’s about helping people to build on that goodwill to do the practical things that can help people who want to use services through the medium of Welsh, and also to be clear with those people who provide services about how Welsh language skills are going to be things that they can build on in the workplace.Cyn belled ag y mae agweddau datblygiad economaidd yr adroddiad yn y cwestiwn rwyf yn meddwl ei bod yn deg i ddweud bod yr arweiniad a gafodd y grŵp oedd eu bod i ganolbwyntio ar y rhannau hynny o Gymru lle mae cyfran y siaradwyr Cymraeg ar ei huchaf. Maen nhw—fel y dywedodd Suzy Davies—yn tynnu sylw arbennig at bwysigrwydd rhanbarth Abertawe ac y dylid rhoi sylw arbennig yno i'r ffordd y mae cyfleoedd datblygu economaidd yn cael eu cyfuno ag anghenion cymunedau Cymraeg eu hiaith.Ceir argymhellion ynghylch sut y gallai rhai o'r syniadau hynny gael eu datblygu, ac rwy'n siŵr, wrth inni feddwl mwy am y pethau hyn yn ystod yr haf, bydd y pwyntiau a wnaeth Suzy Davies am y rhannau hynny o gymunedau lle nad yw siarad Cymraeg ar yr un lefel, ond yn yr un ardal, yn rhan o'r hyn y byddwn yn dymuno meddwl amdano.

Mike Hedges AC: First, can I declare an interest? I have a daughter who attends Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Bryn Tawe and a granddaughter attending Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Tan-y-lan.I welcome the report and the commitment of the Welsh Government and the Minister to the Welsh language. I believe that education is the key to the continuation of Welsh as a community language. I am pleased with the growth of Welsh-medium education, especially in south Wales, led by Labour-controlled local authorities. As the First Minister said earlier today in answer to a question from Jeremy Miles, the area speaking Welsh has been moving up the Swansea valley—perhaps leaving Craig-cefn-parc and bits of Pontarddulais behind—for some considerable time. That’s something we need first to halt and then to reverse, returning Welsh to the community language throughout the Swansea valley. My wife can tell you about when she was young and in school—that in Ynystawe, where I live, Welsh was the language of the community. It’s sadly no longer so.I’ve three questions relating to local government and the Welsh language. Two of these—the Minister’s going to say—don’t actually fall into his portfolio, so, apologies for that. Firstly, what is being done to ensure that parents have the opportunity of Welsh medium, when their children are in Flying Start? That’s the beginning of education for very many children, and if they’re put into an English-medium Flying Start the likelihood is they’ll go through English-medium education right the way through. I think it’s important that that opportunity is available. I’ve had to take up cases on behalf of constituents, which have eventually got them into a Welsh-medium Flying Start, but they’ve had to put an awful lot of effort into doing it whereas, actually, it should be a matter of individual choice.Secondly, what is being done to ensure sufficient provision of Welsh-medium schools available in each local authority area? Thirdly, whilst I find it very difficult to speak Welsh in a political and technical environment, some who’ve been taught through the medium of Welsh know some technical words only in Welsh. Are all local authorities in Wales answering correspondence through the medium of Welsh as quickly as correspondence in English?

Mark Drakeford AC: Can I thank Mike for those questions? He points to one of the fantastic phenomenons of our time—the growth of Welsh-medium education. Here in the city of Cardiff, when I first chaired South Glamorgan’s Welsh-medium working group in the 1980s, the number of young people who were obtaining an education through the medium of Welsh was literally a fraction of the number that are there today. Getting young people at the very earliest age into Welsh-medium education, where that’s what they and their parents would wish for them is, I understand, extremely important and particularly important for those young people who take advantage of the Flying Start programme. I’ll make sure that the points that he has made about that and about the growth of Welsh-medium education right across Wales—I’m sure that the Secretary for Education will want to hear what he said on that.As to answering correspondence received through the medium of Welsh in as timely a fashion as that received through English, I imagine that the answer is that it doesn’t happen quite that way in every local authority in Wales, which will rely on a letter being translated into English, an answer in English being crafted and retranslated into Welsh. But I do think that local authorities across Wales will be alert to the need to do more in this area. Changes in technology for translation will be of help to them as well as other public bodies, and this report, which they will be studying over the summer, will help them in that area, too.

Adam Price AC: I warmly welcome the clear focus in this report on that crucial link between language and economic development. For some of us who have been campaigning over decades for a viable future for the Welsh language as a community language in the traditional Welsh-speaking areas of west Wales, it is crucially important to realise that, unless we answer that fundamental question, there is no future for the Welsh language to the same extent as a community language. Despite the increases we see in other parts of Wales, we are losing a key resource for that regeneration at a national level if we lose the traditional linguistic cultural vibrancy of west Wales. I recall some 20 years ago in the Eisteddfod in Newport actually occupying a bungalow with Alun Davies, and that was outside Carmel, I believe—it was an executive bungalow; there were gold taps there. But what was the slogan then? It was, ‘housing and work to save the language’. The slogan’s been there for decades. It’s time for action now, isn’t it? I see in recommendation 10 a call for an economic language strategy for the counties of west Wales with this focus, of course, on hubs, on hub towns, which are crucially important if we look at the main challenge, which is to retain our young people in those towns and create an economic foundation for them.But my question for the Minister is this: the strategy is one thing, but unless you have a structure in place then you’re not going to be able to deliver that strategy. In the context of local government, of course, we do have our city regions in the south, and I warmly welcome those, but where is our region in west Wales? What corresponds to that in terms of giving us that critical mass and the medium that can actually achieve this linguistic economic strategy that this report demands?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I acknowledge what the Member says. I have heard the First Minister saying the same things over the years with regard to the importance of those traditional Welsh-speaking communities where the language is used every day. O ran y pwynt ehangach a ddiweddodd arno, bydd yn gwerthfawrogi bod y rheini yn rhan o drafodaethau ehangach yr ydym yn eu cael ac yn awyddus i barhau i'w cael.Ceir nifer o wahanol fforymau, nifer o wahanol sefydliadau datblygu economaidd, sy'n gweld eu hunain fel bod yn rhan o'r darlun hwn. Mae'n rhan o'r rheswm pam y gofynnodd y Gweinidog blaenorol am i'r darn hwn o waith gael ei wneud—i'n helpu i ystyried rhai o'r materion hynny i wneud yn siŵr bod gennym y strwythurau ar waith sy'n gallu cynorthwyo'r cymunedau hynny yn y gorllewin a'r i'r de lle mae'r berthynas rhwng y ffordd y mae gwasanaethau'n cael eu darparu, y ffordd y mae ieithoedd yn cael eu defnyddio, a'r ffordd y gellir llunio dyfodol economaidd y cymunedau hynny wir yn dod at ei gilydd mewn ffordd y mae angen i ni sicrhau bod pob llinyn yn atgyfnerthu'r lleill, yn hytrach na gwahanu oddi wrthynt.Rwyf yn obeithiol y bydd yr adroddiad hwn o gymorth sylweddol i ni wrth wneud hynny.Mae heddiw, yn syml, yn ymwneud â rhoi'r adroddiad hwnnw ar gael i'r cyhoedd a gwneud yn siŵr bod gennym ymateb mor ffrwythlon ag y gallwn ei gyflawni iddo.

Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary.

9. 8. Motion to Annul the Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2016

The next item of business is the motion to annul the Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2016. I call on Mark Isherwood to move the motion.

Motion NNDM6019 Mark IsherwoodTo propose that the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order 27.2:Agrees that The Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2016, laid before the Assembly on 30 March 2016, be annulled.

Motion moved.

Mark Isherwood AC: Diolch—thank you very much indeed. I’ve long called, for many years, for temporary blue badges, representing the views of constituents and organisations, and, clearly, the proposed amendment regulations are a step in the right direction, but they don’t go nearly far enough, and I will briefly explain that.I’ve received many items of correspondence from constituents over the years who have had temporary impairments, requiring them to depend upon perhaps a wheelchair or a walking stick because of limited ability for a limited period—because of an accident, because of an operation, primarily, but occasionally other factors, too—and the impact on their lives has been devastating, hence I raised this repeatedly during the last Assembly, amongst other things as co-chair of the cross-party group on disability, and received a very warm and positive response from the then Minister responsible for this issue, Edwina Hart. Now, I’ll quote just from one of the constituent letters. This was one that was copied, actually, to all the then North Wales Members in December 2013. She said:‘I broke my leg (knee and ankle damage) on Tuesday November 5th...I am to put NO weight on it for EIGHT weeks…. How is it that those such as I am not permitted a TEMPORARY “Blue parking badge for Disability”. The necessity to have the wheelchair brought right around to the fully open passenger car door is virtually impossible in 99.9 per cent of parking places. I dread the icy winter rain coming whilst I am in this condition; and of equal concern is the pressure and physical difficulty put on my dear husband as he struggles to cope with me on top of his own long-term illness’.Now, in May 2014, speaking in this Chamber, I told the Minister, the then Minister for Economy, Science and Transport, that I had written to her regarding this matter the previous December, and she had replied helpfully by referring her to the blue badge review group and stating it had identified obstacles to temporary badges, such as recovering the badge when it was no longer required, and the consequent potential for abuse. I asked what consideration had been given, or would or could be given, to temporary badges being provided with dates of duration or expiry or renewal dates on them so that they could not be recycled in that way. Again, I did that on behalf of constituents who suggested I raise that point. The Minister said that she would forward my contribution to her officials for discussion.On 17 June 2014, the Minister wrote to all Assembly Members, stating that, ‘during Plenary on 21 May, Mark Isherwood AM asked if consideration could be given to issuing temporary blue badges and I wanted to update all Members on this.’And she concluded, ‘This is an area where further work is required, and I’ve asked my officials to explore this matter, including the suggestion of introducing badges with shorter time limits.’In April 2015, responding to that Minister’s statement on blue badges again in this Chamber, I said:‘Last year, I raised with you the case of a constituent who’d been temporarily disabled and was in a wheelchair…following a serious injury, and asked what consideration could be given to temporary badges being provided, with dates of duration, or expiry, or renewal dates…so they could not be recycled, or used when somebody was no longer eligible. You confirmed that you would forward this proposal to your officials for discussion. Having heard nothing on that specific point since, I would be grateful if you could comment.’I also welcomed her announcement that she was appointing a task and finish group to look at this. She said that she would have to look at the regulation changes, possibly in October 2015. In December 2015, the Minister then made a written statement on the blue badge task and finish group report. She said she’d appointed the group, chaired by former AM Val Lloyd and she was publishing the report and recommendations at that point. And she said that in order to take forward the recommendations she had formed a blue badge implementation group. She said:‘I’ve previously stated I would like to see changes to eligibility to include people with temporary conditions which require extensive treatment and rehabilitation that impacts on their mobility.’Then, in January this year, again in a business statement, I called for a statement on the blue badge scheme. I said:‘There are further questions on something that I’ve been questioning the Minister positively for a number of years over, which is a blue badge for people with temporary conditions’.The explanatory memorandum to the regulations for the amendment that we’re discussing today rightly states that:‘At present, Blue Badges can only be issued to people whose mobility is permanently impaired. However, there are other temporary conditions and impairments that can severely affect mobility for the duration of the impairment or condition.’That is the hub of it; that’s bang on. The problem is what it then goes on to say. Because the Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2016, laid before the Assembly on 30 March, are restrictive in only allowing blue badges to be issued for one year to a person who is unable to walk, who has considerable difficulty walking, by reason of a temporary but substantial difficulty which is expected to last for a period of at least 12 months. That, for example, would have invalidated the letter I read out earlier, which triggered this whole process with the then Minister.This is in breach of the Welsh Government’s publicly stated commitments to person-centred support, to independent living and to the social model of disability. The social model makes the important difference between impairment and disability. It’s been worked out by disabled people themselves, who say that ‘most of the problems we face are caused by the way society is organised, but barriers to access and inclusion, not impairment or our bodies, are the main causes of disabling problems; these barriers include people’s attitudes to disability and physical and organisational barriers.’ I’m quoting there Disability Wales, and such are, may I say, the barriers these regulations, if they go through, as are currently drafted, will put in place.The policy and research officer for Disability Wales has told me, ‘I agree that blue badges should ideally have a more person-centred time limit to reflect individual impairment, rather than the one-size-fits-all period of one year; achieving this would be a step in the right direction’. And the policy adviser for Age Cymru also wrote to me saying, ‘I’m writing to you with reference to the Plenary debate’—this Plenary debate, the motion to annul the amendment regulations. She says: ‘Age Cymru welcomes the extension of the availability of the badge for people with temporary mobility impairments. We agree with you that there should be flexibility around the period for which the temporary badges are issued, and we deem that the duration of the badge in such circumstances should be based on the recovery time of the applicant, and feedback from a relevant healthcare professional’. They also believe, they said, that the fast track procedure must be available from all local authorities, otherwise people may lose a substantial component of the time for which they need help. They attached a copy of their response to the Welsh Government’s consultation on this issue in February 2016, confirming that these points had been raised with the Welsh Government at that time.I welcome the fact that the business Minister rang me last week to clarify my purpose behind bringing forward this motion today. And I explained what I’ve explained today—because it didn’t go far enough, not because we wish to undo and remove the opportunity to bring in temporary blue badges. The Minister proposed perhaps I could consider instead a statement being provided in the Assembly, and I explained that we could have that, but it’s not binding on the Government. But I said if the Minister was able to come back to me with a proposal that would enable us going forward on this within this Assembly term, I’d be pleased to perhaps consider that and talk that through with her with a view, possibly, to removing today’s motion. Well, I heard nothing, and therefore I’ve gone ahead with the motion as proposed.As I say, these amendment regulations represent progress, but they don’t go far enough because they still disable too many people. I therefore call on the Welsh Government to temporarily defer the introduction of these regulations in order to bring in the flexibility being called for by so much of the sector and people affected.If the Welsh Government is not prepared to do that today, I call on Members to ensure that your support today for enabling the Welsh Government to go forward, or not, is based upon their commitment, after today, to go away and consider and review the current regulations that may well still go ahead if you don’t support me, with a view to bringing in the flexibility that’s so badly needed by so many people and which paradoxically triggered this whole process in the first place with the previous Minister. If you’ll back me this can go through with that commitment publicly made by the Welsh Government, but if you simply talk down what I’m saying then the Welsh Government will implement the regulations without any commitment to introduce the flexibility that so many people need. I leave it with you. I hope you’ll do the right thing so that we can collectively achieve what I think, in your hearts, all of us want to achieve, which is remove those barriers to access and inclusion facing people with impairments and disabling too many of them. Thank you.

Siân Gwenllian AC: I have a great deal of sympathy with this desire to be more flexible in terms of temporary badges. But, I do disagree with the Member’s approach to this. Supporting his motion would mean one thing: no rights to a temporary blue badge, which is a situation that would be far worse than the one we’re currently in. So, I’m encouraging you to vote against this motion. There is no reason to prevent disabled people from having a temporary badge, affecting the independence of all those people who are recovering from conditions that impair their mobility. Of course, the Conservatives don’t have a particularly good record in this area. Can I just remind you—? [Interruption.] And a number of other areas. But could I just remind you of cuts to disability benefits and the bedroom tax, just to name two? Plaid Cymru will continue to fight for the rights of disabled people and this motion today won’t assist that.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure to speak—Ken Skates.

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. To recap for those Members who were not part of the fourth Assembly, the regulations will enable people with an impairment lasting at least 12 months to access disabled parking spaces in exactly the same way as they would if their condition was permanent. Now, the disabled persons blue badge scheme is intended to enable those who cannot walk or who have considerable difficulty in walking to access services and facilities, thus assisting them to live independently. Blue badges are issued by the local authority and they are responsible for assessing applicants and deciding whether to issue a badge. There is no formal route of appeal against the decision of a local authority beyond the local authority general complaints process.Welsh Ministers have limited powers in this area. We have issued non-statutory guidance and we work with local authorities to promote a high-quality and consistent service to applicants. Issuing statutory guidance or changing the issuing arrangements, such as creating a central assessing and awarding body, would require a change to primary legislation, which can be pursued if the current arrangements prove unsatisfactory.In terms of the 12-month or six-month question, the approach was endorsed by the task and finish group’s recommendation in 2015 when they said,‘The Welsh Government should consider providing a temporary badge system where qualifying conditions are likely to last at least 12 months.’In terms of why badges are issued for 12 months rather than for a shorter or a longer period, or indeed more flexible periods of time, one of the priorities was to introduce a scheme which was going to be workable and also practical. The consultation sought views on effective administration of the temporary badges from all stakeholders, including local authorities, who will be responsible for issuing those badges. Over 80 per cent of respondents who expressed a view on this topic felt that a standard 12-month issuing period was the best approach to take. This was also the opinion of the implementation group tasked with overseeing the effective delivery of the task and finish group recommendations.Can I support and thank Sian Gwenllian for her appeal to Members to not support Mark Isherwood’s attempt for an annulment of the regulations? But can I equally suggest to Mark Isherwood that, if Members wish to discuss and debate the blue badge scheme in more detail, then I am more than happy to make an oral statement on the scheme? This will give an opportunity for questions and further debate.

I call on Mark Isherwood to reply to the debate.

Mark Isherwood AC: Thank you. Clearly, the opportunity to have further debate would be welcomed if this goes through. Unfortunately, again, that will not be binding. I hope that you would confirm that, if the arguments you hear—some of which I’ve rehearsed today—are persuasive, that that might actually lead to the Welsh Government revisiting this subsequently with a view to making further regulations or further amendments to the regulations accordingly.I say to Plaid Cymru that I support the objective behind temporary blue badges. This is to help and to maximise the help available to disabled people—disabled by the barriers society places in their way. Had you stood with me, perhaps we could have persuaded the Welsh Government today to agree to bring in a consideration of more flexible measures subsequently and then I could have withdrawn the motion knowing that they’d made that commitment. But, because you’ve rubber-stamped them, we don’t have that commitment. All we now have is a statement with a non-binding outcome. I therefore regret that you haven’t used that perhaps political nous to take that forward on that basis, but there we are. Perhaps, over time, things may change.

The proposal, therefore, is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting, therefore, under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

Rydym ni nawr yn cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio a gytunwyd i’w gynnal ar ôl yr eitem olaf o fusnes. Oni bai bod tri Aelod yn dymuno imi ganu’r gloch, rwy’n symud yn syth, felly, i’r cyfnod pleidleisio.

10. 9. Voting Time

I call for a vote on the motion put forward in the name of Mark Isherwood. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour of the motion, 16, abstentions, 0, and against the motion, 38. The motion is, therefore, not agreed.

Motion not agreed: For 16, Against 38, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on motion NNDM6019.Click to see vote results

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

The meeting ended at 17:43.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Janet Finch-Saunders: Will the First Minister make a statement on ambulance response times?

Mark Drakeford: I am pleased to note the national response time target has been met during every month since the introduction of the clinical response model pilot in October 2015. Encouragingly, the standard response time to the most serious type of call was just five minutes and 30 seconds in April.

Dai Lloyd: Will the First Minister make a statement on the future of primary care in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: Primary care has an excellent future in Wales as the mainstay of a sustainable health system for future generations. We continue to invest further in primary care to increase the capacity and capability of the workforce, providing better access to more services within communities.

Mike Hedges: What is Wales's projected housing need over the next five years?

Mark Drakeford: The 2015 report on future housing need by the Public Policy Institute for Wales estimated that an additional 8,700 homes would be needed each year, of which 3,500 should be non-market housing.

Mark Isherwood: How is the Welsh Government supporting industry in North Wales?

Mark Drakeford: Wide-ranging support is available to support industry across Wales, including north Wales. This includes support for new and existing business through Business Wales, three enterprise zones in north Wales and investment in information and communications technology and transport infrastructure.

Huw Irranca-Davies: Will the First Minister explain the Welsh Government's vision for the South Wales Metro, with particular reference to Ogmore?

Mark Drakeford: The metro will be a modern, high-quality, multimodal and integrated transport system offering rapid, frequent and reliable rail services incorporating the bus network. It will link our communities in south Wales, and support the economy by enhancing connectivity across Wales.

Rhianon Passmore: Will the First Minister provide an update on the progress of the 21st century schools programme in Islwyn?

Mark Drakeford: Investment of almost £26 million has been approved to date for Islwyn through the twenty-first century schools and education programme. The funding is earmarked for a new 1,050-place comprehensive school for the area.